Labrie, James (Dream Theater, Mullmuzzler) (July 2002)

Confronting James LaBrie

[This interview was conducted in November 2001 and originally appeared at Progfreaks.com]

It's a safe bet that most people don't really need an introduction to the name James LaBrie. The Canadian frontman of progressive metal darlings Dream Theater is known to everyone in the scene and has become one of the most imitated singers by new prog metal acts as the years have gone by. However, while many are quite familiar with LaBrie and his importance in the sound of Dream Theater, they may not quite be as conscious of the fact that the vocalist has another band named Mullmuzzler, which has already released two albums and is a veritable meeting of important prog names, with elements of acts such as Shadow Gallery, Dali's Dilemma, Beer For Dolphins, and Magellan having participated in both releases. And with Dream Theater's new release just around the corner, [Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence] this might be the last time that fans out there get to hear of Mullmuzzler for a while, so what better time to talk with LaBrie about it?

MS: Going back to the origins of Mullmuzzler, part of the reason why the first album Keep It To Yourself came out at the time it did, and under the Magna Carta label, was the fact that both Mike Varney and Peter Morticelli from the record label called you and asked if you'd like to record a solo album with them. What if they hadn't called? Would there still have been a Mullmuzzler?

James LaBrie: Yeah, I think eventually there would have been some project that I would have put together; some kind of band that I would have put together. And probably the music that you would have heard would have been the songs that you've already heard, you know? [laughs] I always knew that eventually I was going to do a solo work, and whether or not I was going to do it behind my name or use a moniker, which I did with Mullmuzzler, I knew that eventually I would do it. If they hadn't contacted me, and even when they did contact me, I told them that I had been thinking about doing a solo project, but I had been waiting a year or two to put it all together.

MS: Out of all the projects that came out of Dream Theater, this one took the longest to come out; that is, you were the last one to release a solo effort. Why?

JL: Well, I wanted it to be the right time for me. I decided to do it when I felt right about doing it. It was a just a matter of key feelings that I identified with and wanted to get out, and of getting together with other writers and some other musicians to play with. So it was basically a matter of when I felt right about doing it.

MS: Back when the band was starting out and you were planning to release the record, Dream Theater's record label Elektra kept you from using the name James LaBrie on the album, although it agreed to let you release it through another label. I take it using a title like The James LaBrie Project or something akin would have been a better marketing choice than using Mullmuzzler...

JL: Yeah, it would have been.

MS: ...but at the same time, using the name Mullmuzzler, instead of something like The James LaBrie Project, allowed you to express something with the project's moniker; to get an idea across, didn't it? Wasn't that an advantage?

JL: First and foremost, I want you to take this project as a band. I don't want to look at it just like a side project or a fly by night kind of thing, because I approached it on a very serious note, and the reason why I waited so long was that, if I would do the solo thing, I wanted to do it right, and I wanted to take my time to do it right. And I wanted the people to know that to be involved, that I asked to become a part of this; I wanted for everyone to be really dedicated and to still be available a year from then or so. So it was a matter of me making sure that all these things were in place if it was going to happen. And with people, if you take the situation as a band, not as a side project kind of money-making machine thing, something that we do has to be great; something that we can be proud of. So this was my way of saying to people: "here's the band name, and here's what it means, take it." And when it came time to do the second one, well, I was just fortunate that Elektra had agreed to also let me keep my name on the album. It was really lucky too on the marketing side, since more people would identify with me than they would with Mullmuzzler. By that time though, I had already decided to use the same name and the same players again on the second album, because this is a band, you know?

MS: When the cover art for Keep It To Yourself came out, it was very intense and eye-catching, but it was not exactly what you had intended it to be. Did the cover art for Mullmuzzler 2 come out the way you had expected it to this time around?

JL: Well, the only thing that I had not intended was that ... it was a little exaggerated; the guy's mouth was incredibly open, and everything was kind of - it was just exaggerated, everything was kind of a little hyper. I wanted it to be a little bit more subtle; the picture was originally supposed to be the man's lips touching the detached ear, like the ear's not attached to part of his head. Originally that was right, but also the man's lips were supposed to be touching his ear, and this is portraying that "you know what? I can't hear what you're saying, because my ear's not connected" [laughs]. But it was supposed to be a subtle, but very strong and powerful message.

After I saw Dave McKean [the artist of the drawing], he took what I told him to do and kind of embellished on it, and believe it or not, after I had it for a week, I kind of liked what I felt. I thought it was kind of cool. It was bizarre, but I kind of liked that bizarre element.

And with the second Mullmuzzler album, Mullmuzzler 2, I had explained to him once again that I wanted the songs and themes to be mirrored there as much as possible; people dealing with relationships ... and just the whole communication thing, questioning things, the debate thing, a spiritual quest, and even one of the songs that's more like a fantasy, a fictional story about vampires. So I wanted it in, I wanted him to do the artwork for the front cover and exhibit what was going on inside, but I wanted it to be exaggerated. And what he did was that he took the approach called allegoric in the drawing, which is done by focusing on and exaggerating the human anatomy; kind of vague and exaggerated, which is kind of emotional ... a very expressive drawing. It was very cool; I loved the artwork!

MS: During the creation process of Keep It To Yourself, the development of songs and exchanging of ideas took place through FedEx, e-mail, etc. between the various people involved in the album. That basically meant that, due to time schedules and the like, there was very little work face to face on that occasion. Did that change at all this time around?

JL: Yeah, there was a bit of a change. Once again - like on the first album - most of the material was written by Matt Guillory [Dali's Dilemma] and myself, and then I wrote a few songs with Gary Wehrkamp, Carl Cadden-James [both from Shadow Gallery], and Trent Gardner [Magellan, Explorer's Club]. With this album, we did use FedEx and were sending ideas back and forth once again, but we actually did get together. On the first one, we didn't get together on some of the actual recordings at all, whereas with this one we did get together before the recordings started, and we did work up the arrangements a week, and next week we would talk about sounds that the songs could have ... so yeah, this time it was different, we were actually able to get together in the same room, work out all arrangements, work on details ... and I think that the album reflects that. The songs are much more mature on the second album; I think they're much stronger, they're much more focused, they have much more direction, and are very dynamic, both musically and vocally. And I think that we also had a bit more time with the process and had the chance to internalize and establish the songs longer, just to make sure that what we were hearing was what we wanted.

MS: Something that comes across as very peculiar regarding Mullmuzzler is the fact that you have what could be described as a writing team on one side, and a team of players on the other. This is certainly a rather unorthodox approach to a band. Isn't it weird to work that way?

JL: Well, put it this way: the reason I did it this way was because I knew the people that I was working with ... I mean, Matt Guillory and I wrote most [of the] songs and he also played on the record; that is one of the exceptions. And then Trent Gardner ... I wrote "Afterlife" with him. And any song that I wrote with Trent, he actually played it. But for anything else, like with how Gary Wehrkamp and Carl Cadden-James didn't play on any of their songs, the reason that I had the writers and I wrote the songs with the writers and then I had players was because I had a feeling that each player that I wanted to have on this album had to be a special kind of guy; a special kind of player that had to have a very unique and identifiable style. The way that they played, their sound, their technical ability ... it was all very important to me. There was just a handful of players that could definitely make the album much more powerful, so that's why I went after players like Mike Mangini, Mike Keneally, Bryan Beller, etc. Because they're great players, but I didn't necessarily want to write with them, and I knew who I wanted to write with and what I wanted to do with those writers, whereas when it came time to record, I needed the right kind of players to do it. It turned out to be a great, very strong team.

MS: The new album also features a surprise for those already familiar with the first Mullmuzzler lineup, as you brought a new guitarist to the fold in the form of Mike Borkosky. Where did you get him? And why bring a new guitarist apart from Mike Keneally (Zappa, Vai, Beer for Dolphins)?

JL: Well, I had Mike Keneally at first when we started recording ... but along the line, what happened when I brought Mike Borkosky in was that, while I was recording Mullmuzzler, I'd already done all the guitar work with Mike Keneally ... obviously, I was producing the album and everything, so my way of recording is drums, and then guitars, and then the keyboards and piano, and then I do my vocals. And while I was recording my vocals, I was hearing songs, well, singing songs, and I started thinking, "you know what? Up here the guitar should do this sound, I hear the guitar do these sounds there, I hear this type of approach..." So the only way that I knew that I could get those elements or songs was to call in ... I don't know, Mike Keneally? Nah, he was down in L.A. and I was in Toronto, so I called this other great guitar player Mike Borkosky to come in and play the guitar ... also, I had written four songs after Mike Keneally had already played! So that's how that happened; I had to find another guitar player because I heard more guitars on the guitar parts, and it was just different.

MS: With such control of decisions, one would imagine that the control you have in Dream Theater and the control you have in Mullmuzzler are different. How pronounced are these differences and how do they reflect on the way your work with each of these bands?

JL: Well, with Mullmuzzler I have tons of control, but it's all very open-minded; I'm very open-minded when I'm writing songs with the other guys in the band. With Dream Theater, it's five guys, and it's very instrumental ... when it comes to writing a song everybody is in it. But in Dream Theater my role is different; with Dream Theater the other four guys are writing the songs, writing the music, and then my involvement usually comes in when the vocal melodies of the songs are being written. That's where I start coming in, and when the lyrics start to get written that's where I come in, and obviously, when the songs are being sung, I definitely come in. [laughs] So I play a different role in Dream Theater than what I play with Mullmuzzler. In the latter, I produce, I write the songs, and I also sing, so they're both different worlds, and I get a different kind of satisfaction from one than I get with the other. They're just two different worlds.

MS: Now, after having recorded two albums with Mullmuzzler and a primary role in writing the songs, haven't you ever regretted that you can't play any instruments such as the guitar in order to get your ideas across more easily?

JL: Well ... yeah, some days I do; some days I'm like "Gosh, I should have picked up the guitar or I should have picked up the piano," but when people were picking up the guitars and playing the guitar or the keyboards well, I was being very serious about my voice. I played the drums from the age of five till seventeen, so I think that that really gave me a great sense of rhythm; that really helped me, and especially with music from a band like Dream Theater. It really helps to have a pounding sense of rhythm being in a band like that. So in that sense, it really did help to play the drums all those years, but what can I say? When I want to write a song, basically I get the ideas in my head and I put them down on tape, just like "click...ok ..." [starts singing a heavy riff ...and there's no way in hell I'm notating it on a pentagram - MS] "...you know what I mean? And I'm getting my idea across, and then that tape goes to the person I want to write the song with. And so I get the point across and then eventually we develop it into the song I'm hearing in my head. So I get there, and I can do everything that I want and don't have to pick up the guitar and need to learn how to play rhythmically...

MS: After having collaborated so much with both Matt Guillory and Trent Gardner, one would think that you are going to keep these writing relationships going on for quite a while longer. And from your comments on Mullmuzzler, one could deduce that this is going to be especially true of your relationship with Guillory...

JL: Well, especially with Matt Guillory, absolutely. Yeah, Matt and I were already talking [about when] to meet and put together some new material and ideas. Whether it will be under the moniker Mullmuzzler, or maybe under something like LaBrie/Guillory, I don't know yet. But I've had so much fun with Mullmuzzler and am so proud of it - I think we got two great albums - that I think at this point I'd be silly to stop. I think that I will probably continue doing Mullmuzzler albums, or at least doing music, writing it, and recording it with Matt Guillory ... definitely. And with the other players as well ... Mike Keneally, Bryan Beller, the whole band.

MS: You were asked this quite a few times after Keep It To Yourself was released, and I'm pretty sure someone else must have asked you again by now, but is there any chance that Mullmuzzler will be doing a set of exclusive shows in the near or distant future?

JL: I would say in the distant future. The reason that it's not going to be in the near future is because Dream Theater's next studio album comes out in January of 2002, and then we begin a world tour that starts on January 25th in Manchester, UK. So we'll probably deal with that for fourteen months or so. If I can organize something after that, I would love to do some shows with Mullmuzzler, because I'd have a riot being on stage with these players and doing these songs on stage; it would be very powerful. So definitely I will, but it'll have to wait until the next Dream Theater tour is done.

Discography:
Mullmuzzler (1999)
James LaBrie's Mullmuzzler 2 (2001)
Elements Of Persuasion (2005)
Prime Cuts (2008)
Static Impulse (2010)