Georgakopoulos, Nicholas (WithoutEnding) (June 2005)

Though Australia's WithoutEnding's self-titled debut album wasn't released until this year, and recorded only last year, the duo of Nicholas Georgakopoulos (vocals, drums) and Michael Totta (guitars) - the core members of trio (the third member is bassist Sam Schepis) - got together and formed the band in 2001. In 2002, they entered the studio to record a two-track demo and six months later, began work on Without Ending, released this past April through ProgRock Records. Georgakopolous and Totta formed WithoutEnding to create "dark complex/progressive [styled music] using odd timing, unique guitar melodies and powerful vocals." Last month Joshua Turner spoke with Georgakopolous (about whom Josh says, "He has a heavy Australian accent. Not so much Crocodile Dundee, but it's there. He sounds closer to Steve Irwin, The Crocodile Hunter maybe. There is something Bostonian in there as well. By the way, why does "crocodile" precede all of the popular Australian names anyhow?").

Joshua Turner: I was listening to your album this morning. I want to talk a little about this album. First of all, I was wondering, do you have any plans to play this music live in the near future?

NG: Uh, yes we do. Well logistically it is a bit of a problem, because... at least in the future [it will be]; we live in Australia, which is eight states or territories and they are geographically dispersed. Basically it takes about 80 [hours] to get to each city, right. So, in order for us to promote the album, it's a bit of a problem. So what we are just working on at this point in time... you still there?

JT: Yeah.

NG: I'm sorry about that. This seems like it's not on, so I'm sorry. We're actually working on acoustic or semi-acoustic shows. So that's what we're working on in the short term. And the other problem is the fact that I do both vocals and drums, you know. We have a bit of a tough time, you know, juggling... you know our tomming and vocals at the same time. So in most cases what was done, or at least thus far we have been [doing] is using... well, we've hired a vocalist thus far and just going with it that way, so we have anyway. So yeah, there's two avenues that we can take playing live, and that's as I said; in the short-term playing semi-acoustic shows around Australia, which we have lined up for this year. We've got about 38 shows lines up and... basically [for] vocals, we hire somebody else for the night and I just kick back on drums. And... yeah, that's pretty much how we do it.

JT: Okay. As I said, I was listening to your album this morning. You've got some good material there. I'd probably say my favorite song is the fifth track, that "Searching For Meaning" one. Do you have a favorite track, one you're most proud of from the album?

NG: Um, yeah. I think the first track for us [that would be the song "Again"], is... that was recorded actually -- sorry, that was written September 11th [2001]; that night we were actually in the studio. That was a Tuesday night, so that is pretty... obviously not special to us, but it's... there's a bit of meaning behind there, so... From I guess a musical point, the fact that it's somewhat diverse -- that's what we think anyway. I mean, that's probably our favorite and there's a bit of history behind it, it being September 11th. I think "Again" for us [is] closest... or, you know, a song that we have a bond with.

JT: For me that's a close second, as well. It's just the fifth one, I just like how that one's arranged. I'm wondering, how did you come up with the name of the band? I think I heard you were originally called WithoutEnd and then I think you changed your name to WithoutEnding. Is that correct?

NG: Yeah that's right. We're actually Lacuna Coil fans, Lacuna Coil being a gothic... rock band in Italy, you know. "WithoutEnd" is actually a name for one of their songs, which was "Senzafine," which was off their... I think it was their Comalies album [actually, it's their Unleashed Memories album - JT]. I guess "WithoutEnd" is just an English translation of... "WithoutEnd" in Italian basically. So, we thought that would have been a cool name to kick off with, but being careless with trademark issues, there's actually a band WithoutEnd in the US, so, we... it was just a case of, I guess, sort of having to adopt another name.

JT: You know, what I find interesting is that you're a drummer and a vocalist and that your name is Nick, as well. I'm wondering, who are your musical influences? Would you say Nick D' Virgilio from Spock's Beard would be one of them?

NG: Yeah, definitely. As I said before... I mean, it's very hard for myself to play live and sing only because of the... of having to coordinate everything, you know. Being ambidextrous or what have you. So the person that I have either watched on DVD or listened to or just admired, you know, has obviously been Nick. And that's pretty much what kicked me off, you know. To actually want to do this and be both a vocalist and drummer. Secondly, Mike Portnoy has been a major influence, as far as counting and subdivisions and what have you when it comes to the planning against time, writing and arranging various parts. And thirdly, Mark Zonder. These three drummers are pretty much, you know, the drummers that have... I guess created the foundation and maybe ideologies, as far as how I think and how I go about things, and now I am just hoping it sounds that way.

JT: Yeah. I mean, I can definitely hear the Dream Theater influence in your music as well. I'm wondering if you could go into your songwriting process a little further, because it is kind of unique to be a drummer and a vocalist at the same time. That's kind of two different sides of the spectrum, as far as the songwriting is concerned. I'm wondering if you could describe how your songwriting process works; how you come up with the music.

NG: Michael, our guitarist, is pretty much the mastermind behind a lot of the songs. It's a case of, you know, the both of us... we get together and we... I guess the thing is our stuff has been premeditated with regards to, you know, stretches. We can go in there and just sort of [say], hey, let's try this in 7/8 or let's try this in 13/8 or whatever. And the mathematics behind it is, you know... Michael will probably sit there and play the eighth note, you know, and I'll sit there and play the quarter note or the fourth note and just see how it interweaves and works. Michael had a mathematic background, [so he can] easily, in a matter of seconds, just come up with some sort of odd timing or some... against the grain approach to an idea that I may have or that he has. So I guess we're really lucky or I'm lucky that I'm working with, you know, a brain that's mathematically inclined. So, it's strange to me. It's usually a case of Michael having an idea and then constantly playing [it] over and over. I thank god that we've met and that, you know, he can actually sit down and just whisk together something in 13/8, 7/8, 5/8, or what have you. He just says, listen Nick, just slap on what you can and... yeah, it's pretty much it.

JT: Are you guys working on another album at this time?

NG: Yeah. We've actually started writing the second album. Hopefully then... we'll write and it all works out well. Hhopefully we're still with Prog Rock on the second album.

JT: What can fans expect from the second album?

NG: It might be... we're not going to move off what it is we've done so far, you know. It's kind of hard. I mean, we've sat down and we've been able to lay down... who we are and what we are with the first album first. To move off that would be... I guess we can't stop the way or what have you... whoever you think we are. It may be a bit more commercial in respect to just a few more catchy... Of course, I mean you did say you enjoyed "Searching For Meaning," track five. You may find that the next album may have, I guess... Or it might maybe.... it may be inclined to move towards, I guess, into that direction, but, we will definitely not lose our... our timing roots or what have you. So, I mean, if it's..., you know..., I mean, I don't know if I could tell you the second album's going to sound like the first album. But... yeah, there may just be a bit more commercial influence on the second album, but that's just something we may try or, you know, I would be happy producing the album that's along the lines of the first album. So... yeah, here we are.

JT: On that first album, it's like I can hear that fifth track playing in my head and it's just... there is just something about the bass and the keys in there that I really like and I just like the juxtaposition of them and just how it's arranged and everything, but... Just talking about yourself a little further, when did your involvement in music actually begin? How did you decide you wanted to become a drummer and a vocalist? Can you just tell me some of the history?

NG: Yeah, sure man. I had been to a Mötley Crüe concert back in 1989 and then when I was first, I guess, introduced and made aware of, you know, drumming and, you know, the theatrics and the circuitry behind it all... So that's what I guess compelled me to want to become a drummer, you know. Watching Tommy Lee back in 1989. Vocally, you know, I've been influenced by seeing [people] such as... you know, if I could... George Michael is a vocalist that I really appreciate, and there is a bit of a link there with George Michael and James LaBrie, you know, There's a lot of breathy vocal passages that they use that are somewhat identical. They're the influences that kicked me off I guess at an early [age], sort of, you know. I said back in 1989, back in '90, '91, so, yeah, musically, I have never taken a drum lesson or vocal lesson, but it's more been a case of just, you know, being pushed by... Tommy Lee back in 1989 and the great vocal abilities of George Michael and James LaBrie. That all kicked off * basically when I was 11, 12...

JT: How did you meet your band mates?

NG: We're actually... well, Michael and I met in High School in ?94, and Sam, who is the newest inclusion into the band, he pretty much joined a couple years back, and through a mutual friend... We've just, you know, created a special bond I guess, and that's how we are.

JT: That's cool. So I have sort of a fun question here; do you recall any Spinal Tap moments in your career as a musician? You know, just something kind of quirky or odd that happened during a show or during a recording?

NG: Um, wow ? okay.

JT: Any mishaps or anything?

NG: Sure, yeah, that's cool. You know, with our last show we played with a band called EyeFear and EyeFear is a fairly... I guess fairly well-known band. We played in St. Kilda, Melbourne at The Gershwin Room and these guys are signed to Massacre Records in Germany and... so they just released three albums and we're playing at their launch... Uh, this goes back to February 4th of this year. Well, I guess I should have said, I was actually drumming for this show and we had hired a vocalist by the name of Jimmy, and I was actually using a triggering drum. I was actually using a... where are we... a T... Sorry, I'll try to make this as simple as possible [he laughs].

[We were] using a Roland pad for my kick drum. Everything else was obviously... I was using Yamaha drums, except for the kick drum I was using a pad. So we're playing live and... little did I know, Brian actually pulled out one of the leads that was triggering the drum pad, so... I was just playing along there for about three minutes, four minutes, thinking that there is, you know, [that] everything is hunky-dory and everything was fine. But as it turns out, there was no bass drum sound through the whole song, you know. I had Michael turn around and try to flag me down and what have you, but I was in my own little world. So I had no idea what it was that was going on, so, you know... But, you know, it was really strange, because, looking back at the footage, because we've got our own... I guess just archived it on some DVD footage... there are, as it turns out, the bass guitar was somewhat prominent in the song, you know; there were five that show, because, you know, there was no kick drum, so yeah, that was... I mean, for us, it's just morphine [more fun? -ed], but, I guess for us, it would be somewhat maculate [be more immaculate? -ed] when it comes to, you know, live, and, you know, performing. So, you know, that pretty much spun us out. So, you know, that was our little Spinal Tap moment there, and it was like shit, you know.

JT: I also wanted to ask a little bit about your current musical tastes and I wanted to start by finding out like what was the last CD that you purchased?

NG: Uh, yeah, well, I've been listening to Elements Of Persuasion, James LaBrie, so I've had that in the car. So, you know, driving around the streets of Melbourne with James LaBrie. He's just, you know, pretty fantastic, and prior to that, I actually purchased.... actually I purchased an old Superior album, Superior being a German-based band, which the title of that album somewhat, uh, passes me at the moment. But, yeah, it's always good to, you know, make yourself aware of other bands, and then especially I guess Europe. And when I say especially Europe, I mean that in the context of, you know, a lot of... American influenced music is, I guess, based around, you know, the European style of... you know, Jethro... [Not sure if he meant Tull; or just called Josh Jethro... -ed]. Your obvious bands such as... you know... where are we? Um... Mr. Khan's band. Phew, where are we? Sorry man, it's five o' clock [a.m.] here, so I'm dazed and confused [I laugh]. You know, uh, Kamelot.... for me [they] are probably one of the greatest bands out of the US man. So, yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, one minute I could be purchasing and listening to, you know, an American-based band two days later I could be, you know... to, like I said, Lacuna Coil or... Dreamscape... or Hubi Meisel. We're really close with a vocalist in Germany, Hubi Meisel, who is an amazing singer, you know. That's another purchase that was made sometime back, which I still have in the car and I still play. [EmOcean, probably -ed.]. So, it's a pretty stocked band as far as I'm concerned. I mean, that's what keeps me going. It's the foundation that's inspired me to, you know, want to keep on playing, singing, and then, you know, helping create music with WithoutEnding.

JT: And then kind of along the same lines, what's the last concert that you attended as a fan?

NG: Nightwish in New York, [at] B. B. Kings' new [club]. Prior to that we saw Dream Theater in Atlantic City, and that was August... 22nd I think, last year. Well actually, in America meeting up with Lionwolf. It was Jon Crawford who was the... I guess the owner of the labels' music. They kicked us off and... hanging out with Jon for... yeah.

JT: Okay. I'm going to ask you a series of your favorites and I'll just start by asking you, what's your favorite album?

NG: Uh, favorite album. Gee, ? I would say Images & Words would be my favorite album.

JT: Yeah, that's a good one. What would you say is your favorite band?

NG: My favorite band?

JT: These are hard ones.

NG: Yeah, I know. I mean, I don't want to seem cliché here by saying Dream Theater, but, you know, in all honesty, Dream Theater by far. Maybe Fates Warning being a second to that.

JT: Okay, yeah, that's cool. I'd also like to ask you some favorites that are not related to music just to get some idea of where other influences might be coming from. What would you say is your favorite movie?

NG: Uh... favorite movie, I would say... I really enjoyed The Butterfly Effect that came out about a year back; by far I think that's my favorite. But that's psycho... influenced religion, pretty awesome... relations to, I guess, you know, the business world is somewhat an influence in relation to... You know, I work for an interesting company. Michael works within banking, so he's, you know, I guess, he's a high-flyer in the banking... circuit, and Sam the bass player, he works with Honda. So, you know, we do this sort of corporate... bonding in... in [a] corporate background and it is, you know... hopefully [will]... I guess influence and... assist us in our... endeavors as musicians out here.

JT: What would you say is your favorite TV Show?

NG: Seinfeld!

JT: That's a good choice. Yeah, I've been watching Curb Your Enthusiasm recently. It's similar humor, if you haven't seen that. What would you say is your favorite book?

NG: Um, see, I'm not really an avid reader.

JT: That's a fair answer.

NG: I think the last book I read was probably when I was 13 and that was under duress, you know, Having to submit something, you know; it was a paper or something when I was 13 or 14. Other than that I cannot really say that I've read a novel or read anything like that, as stupid as it sounds. [I laugh] Please pardon me and pardon my ignorance, but... yeah. I know I can't actually... fantasize and visualize, you know, something that's written or at least become one and one with something that's on... I really have to see it for my own, you know, [with] my own eyes and what have you to, you know, grasp some understanding of it. So, um, yeah, as stupid as it sounds. [I laugh]

JT: Okay, speaking of stupid, I have a stupid question, but I just like to ask it. Nobody else asks it; something I can identify with. Do you have any pets?

NG: Pets. I used to have a pet. It was actually killed New Year's Eve.

JT: Oh man.

NG: Yeah. Her name was Tiffany. She was a little sweet thing. I guess there was a lot of... she's actually... if you see on the album credits... rest in peace, RIP, Tiff, or Tiffany. That's... yeah, she was my little sweetie, I guess, and... as dumb as that sounds.

JT: No, that's not dumb at all. I mean, I feel your loss, that's terrible.

NG: Yeah. That was a 13 year old, I guess human year dog. So, that's... that's freaked me out. But... I mean, that I felt... you know, [that] I've been talking, still to this day, you know, that brings out, I guess, the softer side in myself, you know. Just a thing that's not even knee-high, you know, to respect you as an owner or as a master, you know, is something that I could, I guess, identify with relations to my parents and the way parents, I could, I guess identify with, do I respect them and listen to them or what have you. So, it's been a learning curve, you know, and, I can see that interaction. I can see that link, you know. So, yeah... she's gone and... I guess I'm going to move on.

JT: [I'm a little lost for words] I want to give you my condolences. That's terrible.

NG: Thanks. No problem.

JT: Well, that's one of the last questions I had. Just before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to say to your fans at this time?

NG: I guess to all five fans or ten fans who are out there, [we laugh] ... yeah. Just bear with us I guess. The next new album should be released in 2006. There's no standard approach to it. We are just going to be ourselves and record as we can, what we can, the three of us. So... that's pretty much it.

JT: I'm actually curious about one thing. What possessed you to take an interview at 5 AM in the morning? I just kind of mean this... I just kind of ask this to be funny, because I would have taken a different time if I had known.

NG: Nah, that's cool. Firstly, you know, beggars can't be choosers, so that's the way I see it anyway. And my apologies for ringing you at 2 as opposed to 12 your time, you know.

JT: No, that's okay.

NG: We can't take any of this for granted, you know, so... and when I say for granted, I mean, you know, we've only been together as a band, you know, for, you know, since 2001. So, to be signed to a label, you know, 15,000 kilometers away from where we are, you know, it's just... we... when it doesn't happen every day, you know. So we really have to, you know, make contact and appreciate what it is we are doing and respect the time and effort that everyone else is putting in for us. So if it means having to get up at 5, you know, to get this interview done, I don't give a shit, you know. I mean, it's just a way of, you know, us appreciating and thanking you personally for your time, you know. And that's fine. I thank you very much for listening to me yapper on [I laugh] for a half an hour or so... in a croaked voice, you know, sort of.

JT: Well, you're very welcome. And... I mean, I think you've got a very good attitude and I just wish you a lot of luck in the future.

NG: Thank you, man. Thank you very much, and good luck with your future endeavors as well and hopefully we could... we might have another interview again and... yeah.

JT: And hopefully I'll get to see you guys live when you finally go out and do something live. But that's about all I have for you at this time. So at this point, just enjoy the rest of your weekend.

NG: Okay man, thank you and yourself and... enjoy the weather there. So, uh, whereabouts are you in the US?

JT: I'm actually in the Midwest. It's Madison, Wisconsin. It's usually pretty cold out here, but we're getting to the part of the year where it's going to be warm, it's going to be nice and... You know, I was actually just out running, so it's pretty good out right now. But sometimes it's like Alaska here and then it's not so fun.

NG: Are you kidding?

JT: No. [we laugh]

NG: Because we were in... last year when we came up, we were actually in... we spent some time in Pennsylvania and we noticed... I mean, it was fairly hot there between August or whatever, when we were up there. But at night it got extremely cold, so, you know, I can only imagine from a Summer perspective being cold at night in winter. I mean, I can only imagine that. So, if you're telling me it's really cold there, you know, here it's somewhat, you know, the adverse. [I'd probably get heatstroke living in Australia, to tell you the truth ?JT] I mean, it's either hot and humid or it's... it's not too cold.

JT: Yeah, it's like Florida half the time and then it's Alaska the other half. We've got the extremes. It's pretty crazy.

NG: Oh, do ya? [we laugh]

JT: Yeah? Okay, that's all I have. I don't want to keep you up too much longer. I don't know if you're getting back to sleep or if you're are going to just start your day early or whatever, but I'll let you go.

NG: Nah, it's cool man. So, what's... are there any shows coming through... where did you say you were, Madison?

JT: Madison, Wisconsin. It's in the Midwest of the United States.

NG: Yeah.

JT: I go out to the East Coast every now and then. I was at ROSfest for the festival they had this year, and I believe it's Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. And then we're pretty close to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Chicago as well, and we've got a place, Shank Hall here in Milwaukee that has a lot of shows as well. I think Porcupine Tree is there this month [May], so that's the kind of stuff we get through here. So, yeah, prog is getting everywhere these days it seems, so it's a good thing.

NG: No, no, that's good stuff. That's good stuff. I mean, with Australia being isolated, you know, we can never get what you guys get there. So, you know, prog-wise anyways. So, you know, please... I guess from a fan's perspective, enjoy every minute you get with these prog bands, because, you know, a lot of Aussies pay a lot of money and do a little traveling for, you know... I mean, I saw Dream Theater in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and that was an expensive... holiday, I guess. It was well worth it, you know. Good luck with all these bands man, watch as many as you can and enjoy them bloody hell.

The band are scheduled to begin recording their second album in January 2006 at Palm Studios. Plus, the band say at their website (as of June 11), "Michael, Nick & Sam are looking forward to playing some acoustic shows in the coming months around Melbourne, Adelaide and Sydney. Negotiations and planning have begun. Keep your eye out for the guest drummer?"

[*He keeps saying this (kicked off) yet I don't know what it means; it must be something Australian - JT; Well, it's a phrase that I don't think is particularly Australian, as it's a phrase used a lot... it means starts off, for example; launches... Readers: don't worry, Josh and I won't be having a footnote conversation here -ed.]

Discography:
WithoutEnding (2005)