Wilson, Steve (w/Gavin Harrison and Richard Barbieri) (Porcupine Tree) (June 2003)

Stripping The Soul Of Steve Wilson And Friends

It's ever so nice when you follow a band from their humble beginnings to sit down with them after many years, only to realize they have become one of the hotter acts on the circuit. More than ten years have elapsed since Steve Wilson christened his project Porcupine Tree whilst at the very same time he started his other band, then called No Man (is an island except the Isle of Man). Starting two major projects and a plethora of musical sidesteps, just when and how did Steve Wilson feel that Porcupine Tree would become his absolute priority? "I think it was a gradual process, I wouldn't say there was one specific moment. The first album was destined to be a one-off, very tongue-in-cheek, kind of a vanity project. But the response to that album was much better than I could ever have expected which led me to do another record. The next project I did was the long Voyage 34 single, which was the first time I tried to do something very deliberately contemporary whilst still holding some of those seventies influences at the same time. Probably Voyage 34 is the time when I realized I could make a career out of this, that I realized I could fuse the past, the present and the future into one big chunk of new music rather than a slice of nostalgic pastiche. Although Voyage 34 opened a lot of new doors for me, it is probably the least commercial single of all time and I'll tell you why. Not only was it very long but it was about LSD. So having LSD as a subject and being thirty minutes long there was no radio station that was going to play it. Furthermore, if you don't take into consideration the narration on the track, it concerns a half an hour instrumental! Nevertheless it crossed over to what was quite a trendy thing at the time, which was the ambient trance movement. Bands like The Orb and Future Sound of London where at the forefront of that musical movement at the time. So in that respect maybe Voyage 34 did have a commercial possibility after all. This, however, was not my intention, as the only thing I wanted to achieve with Porcupine Tree at that time was for the band to have some relevance in the longer term.

"Around that same time I had christened my other project No Man with whom I had a record deal. We were doing OK, we had some great press although our albums didn't sell that well. Looking back at the No Man career I must admit it has taken us a long time to find the right path. It's only with the last couple of albums that we finally found the kind of music that we were meant to make. With Porcupine Tree it seemed to crystalize much quicker into something which had a sense of purpose, which was completely divorced from any commercial aspirations or need to sell a certain amount of records. The strange thing is that I envisaged No Man to be the project I could make a living off, whereas Porcupine Tree was intended to be a labour of love, something which didn't have to sell truckloads in order to survive. In the end it ended up the other way around!"

The fact that the names Porcupine Tree and No Man are now kind of linked to each other like Siamese twins, of course people who otherwise would never have heard of No Man will pick up an album more quickly due to the PT connection. "Stylistically these are two very different bands. In fact No Man is almost completely devoid of any rock element whilst PT is definitely a rock band. So it's a big leap for people who like Porcupine Tree to also like what we do with No Man. I know a lot of people don't make that transition. In some cases, however, some people prefer No Man to what I do with PT, which is great. I mean both projects are parts of my musical personality, they both are very distinctive in their very own way. Porcupine Tree, Bass Communion and the Incredible Expanding Mindfuck are completely done by myself. Only No Man and Blackfield are projects where I collaborate with someone else [with Aviv Geffen in the latter -ed.]. Obviously the end result takes on a different kind of character through this. In my own space I can get up in the morning and start writing PT or BC or IEM material depending on the mood I'm in, but I will never be able to get out of bed and start to write No Man material unless Tim Bowness is there. No Man toured for the last time in 1993, as I feel it is a very difficult music to perform live. It has to be very precise, very fragile, very textural. Unless the circumstances are absolutely right it's not going to work live.

"Yesterday we played in a tiny little club in Copenhagen with a shitty PA. Now Porcupine Tree can pull it off but No Man would be a disaster! I would never go on the road with No Man opening for Porcupine Tree. Firstly, it's way too much work for me. Secondly I think the PT audience isn't necessarily the right audience to appreciate No Man and finally in a way I feel like it's disrespectful for No Man to open for PT. No Man should have their own show, in the right circumstances, with the right audience at the right time. To be honest I don't see it happening very soon."

Right at the very beginning of Porcupine Tree, the lyrics were written by someone else. Knowing how personal lyrics can be, it doesn't seem logical that someone else composes the music to fit these lyrics without the original author being there. "In the early days, Alan's lyrics were very abstract, surreal, kind of divorced from reality, almost dreamlike. Very drug influenced lyrics. Because they were so abstract it didn't feel like I was singing someone else's soulful lament. If you take the lyrics from recent PT albums, for instance from the Lightbulb Sun album, which is a very personal album about relationships and the breakup of relationships, to give them to someone else to sing would be very odd. But when you sing about more abstract things or about subjects I used to in the early part of my career such as war, religion, drugs and more abstract concepts, they are easier for other people to interpret them in their very own way. Alan's lyrics were never personal, they were always very surreal and he would very rarely use the words I or me. He didn't write about emotions but more about state of mind, consciousness, drug influences. So it wasn't hard for me to sing them with conviction, but it would be really hard for someone else to sing my more recent lyrics.

"Where composing is concerned, as I said, I always write the Porcupine Tree material by myself. We only ever wrote one song together as a band and that was 'Buying New Soul.' All the other songs that are credited to the whole band, things like 'Russia On Ice,' 'Intermediate Jesus,' basically were improvisations. For me it tends to be very hard to write in a group situation. For me it's important to have a central vision, it's important to have one person who knows where you're going. I can't explain it any other way. When I'm writing and I have this flow of musical ideas floating through my head, it's as if I don't want anyone to disturb me saying 'hey, how about if we do this or that'. When I'm on a roll I sometimes have the entire song in my head hours before I'm about to record it. For me it's just a race against time to record it, to get the guitar part down, to get the piano part down, to record the drums, because it's all there, the entire arrangement! Sometimes however you will see certain songs to be co-credited such as 'Wedding Nails,' which I did with Richard Barbieri and 'Strip The Soul,' which I did with Colin Edwin. The reason why they are credited is because they came up with an integral part of the material. In fact, in both those cases the songs were developed from ideas they gave me. In the case of Richard, he gave me this bizarre electronic rhythm which is now in the middle of the song; in the case of Colin, he gave me this bass line which appears in the middle of the song. But having delivered those ideas as a starting point for these songs that was the end of the collaboration. It was like I needed them to be out of the room so I could continue writing and recording. That's the way I work. I found it very difficult to work together with people. I can work with Tim Bowness because Tim is a vocalist/lyricist, but musicians I find it very hard to collaborate with during the writing process. Don't ask me why but I find writing and recording rather a solitary discipline."

Writing and recording is one thing, producing is another. In order to produce someone else's record you do need to collaborate with other people. However, when I take Opeth's Blackwater Park album and listen closely to the piano section at the end of "The Lepper Affinity," I must confess that this is 100% Porcupine Tree to my ears. "One of the great things for me as a producer is the fact that I don't have the burden of being the songwriter. I don't feel the burden of having to be in control as to how my 'baby' is going to be born so to speak. It's someone else's baby and I'm involved in the delivery of it but I don't feel the same responsibility as I have towards my own baby, if you know what I mean. So I can take a serious step back in the process. Where that particular piano section is concerned, yes, it is undoubtedly my style of playing but it certainly was Mikael Akersfeldt from Opeth who wanted me to play piano at the end of that track. He might not have told me how he wanted me to play it, but it was probably their idea. In that concept, I enjoy being just an extra musician just doing what comes naturally.

"Obviously Opeth knows my musical personality through my own work and I feel very comfortable to suggest things to them. In fact, the collaboration with Opeth works both ways. They use some of my ideas whilst I absorb elements which later on I might use for Porcupine Tree. There's kind of a symbiotic relationship. I have so much respect for Mikael as a musician because what he does is amazing. Great melodies, great guitar parts, wonderful playing, great arranging, great ideas. So it's a pleasure for me to work and to learn from that, too. I really have an affinity with this band, maybe because they are so much like Porcupine Tree. We both have virtually the same sales, we both have the same views. From the very beginning of PT, I always asked myself the question with what other bands do we hook up with? We never felt like we were part of the spacerock scene, although we played with some of those bands; we never thought we were part of the progressive rock scene, although we played with some of those bands; we never really felt part of anything. Although we sometimes played at some of the major prog festivals we never felt any affinity with the other bands who performed there and then finally we find a band like Opeth and some others and we kind of feel we belong to this little thing which is happening: genuinely ambitious rock music! Great music, great playing, good mutual respect going on, which is something we never had before."

When you say Opeth and some others, can we also mention bands such as Turin Brakes, Elbow, Sigur Rös? "Sigur Rös are miles ahead of us in terms of sales and profile. If I were to include names of that level I should include Radiohead, Sigur Rös, Flaming Lips, Tool, yet all of these bands are way in front of us commercially. The great thing about Porcupine Tree and Opeth is that we each sell about 100,000 copies per album, that we play in front of rather similar audiences every night and that there's a crossover in the audience. I worked with them and Mikael and I are going to do something together and we gradually step on the same ladder at the same pace. Luckily, the word 'progressive rock' has been slightly rehabilitated over the last couple of years. In Absentia is our first proper release in America and we had the most amazing reviews ever. Everything from Rolling Stone down to the smaller papers were unanimous about the album and the funny thing was that almost every single review used the word 'progressive' but not in a negative sense! Five years ago in Britain the use of the word 'progressive' in a review would have been immediately derogatory. Although I try not to read too many reviews, I was ever so pleased to read the word progressive in such a positive, refreshing way. For years we had been trying to avoid the word but now we can freely use it again. Britain however will always be more hung up on that word because the British music press are still kind of embarrassed that progressive rock was kind of invented in Britain. It was this ridiculous dinosaur thing that punk rock was invented to destroy. So in Britain it will always be a difficult issue. However, King Crimson are getting some fantastic mainstream press. Tool are seen as a very trendy band, but are truly progressive. The same can be said about Sigur Rös, very trendy indeed."

The bands mentioned are young bands loved and cherished by young music lovers. Young kids don't go out to see the Yardbirds or Yes, whilst music journalists most of the time are young kids, people who have no affinity with older bands. That might be the reason why young generations of bands are getting a fair chance in mainstream press whereas the bands that were already around during the seventies don't get any attention at all. "You're probably right but there's more to it than just that. For me, one of the great tragedies about modern music writing is that there are no more good writers. I grew up in the eighties and I used to buy Melody Maker, New Musical Express, Sounds, who all had some great writers. The main reason why they were so damned good was because they knew about the history of rock music. The sad thing today is that you will get a 22 year old kid writing for NME who will write a review of the latest Coldplay or Sigur Rös or Tool or whoever and claim it to be the best album ever produced. Yet he won't be aware of the background, the influences of the band, the building blocks, if you like, that have created that sound. When I listen to Sigur Rös I hear the Cocteau Twins, Pink Floyd, Dead Can Dance and the whole 4AD catalogue. I hear so many things when I listen to that band that I find it so sad not to read about the historical context. Maybe it's not important as long as the music is good. When I was eighteen years old I was obsessively checking out music from the past, obsessively searching for the great records from the past. I didn't go out to buy Sgt. Pepper and Revolver and think that that was it, but went beyond, finding all of Can, Velvet Underground, Patti Smith, Beach Boys, Doors, Led Zeppelin, King Crimson, Magma, Tangerine Dream, Scott Walker. Even Frank Sinatra records, because that's what musical history is all about. How can you be a music writer if you don't have any historical perspective on the music you write about? These days they have all the information they need at their fingertips courtesy of the Internet and it's great fun, too! The sad thing is a lot of American journalists don't have their musical knowledge extend back beyond Nirvana's Nevermind. Maybe that's our advantage because these journalists don't know anything about the seventies and progressive rock as it was back then. Maybe that's the reason why we're getting such good press.

"For years Porcupine Tree sold records on the strength of being compared to Pink Floyd, so we can't really complain. Both Mikael from Opeth and myself are massive fans of music and we both enthuse a lot about other music when we are interviewed. We talk about each other in our interviews and you only get this when you are part of the same scene and create a crossover audience. We will be doing a joint tour with Opeth and will probably alternate who headlines and who is support. Who knows, we might even be tempted to do a special encore with both bands on stage at the same time!"

Although a band like Porcupine Tree sells 100,000 copies of each title, they are certainly not in a position to retire in Hollywood in a gigantic house with a swimming pool. Not yet anyway! However, selling 100,000 copies probably means at least another 100,000 have been copied by means of the Internet and MP3. Surely this must taste bitter to know this! "I'm in no position to complain about the Internet because without the Internet, the band would not have gone as far as we are today. For years the Internet was our only way to spread the word about the band and MP3 was a great way for people to hear Porcupine Tree music. I mean, let's face it, PT music doesn't get airplay on daytime radio nor is it shown on MTV. So the best way to market your music is to have sound samples available. I like to think that people who like Porcupine Tree would not be satisfied with some MP3 downloads. The kind of people who like the band are the kind of people who care about music a little bit more, who really like to have the album mastered properly, in the proper sequence, with the proper artwork even printed on the proper paper with the proper reproduction and the proper care for detail. In a way, people who listen to Boyzone wouldn't be that fussed about having the best quality. I mean, take it from me, as I have heard my music as MP3, they sound pretty horrible! Superficially they sound OK, they can sound like a very badly mastered CD. I'm speaking for myself here, as I don't know if I'm right, but from personal experience I can say that when I download an MP3 and I like what I hear, the next thing I do is go out and buy the original full album. To me that's normal because I'm a collector so I want it to sound and look perfect." The sad thing is that should the band be given the opportunity to guest in "A Day At The Osbourne's" they would probably shift 100,000 albums in a week! "Such is life! Such is life! If a piece of Porcupine Tree music were used in a 30 second commercial, the response could be phenomenal. It was used in Birds Of Prey [a shortlived TV series] but nothing happened saleswise.

"For good marketing you need repetition. One radio play doesn't make any difference. Ten radio plays a day for a month makes a big difference. If our music were used in a commercial or a movie then yes we would see a difference. But as always, it has so much to do with luck and circumstances. At the end of the day you have to sell records in order to be able to make records! If you don't sell records then you will have to stop making records, it's as simple as that! There's such a great paradox about being an artist which says: music is art, art should not be subject to commercial consideration, however in order to make it you have to be able to make money. The only way around that is to do it as a hobby. However if you do it as a hobby and you make your money from elsewhere, you're free and you can do whatever you like, you can make triple albums of experimental freejazz, it simply doesn't matter. But if you are professional musicians such as ourselves you have to achieve certain sales targets, but at the same time we're trying to make music without any commercial consideration. In Absentia was made with no commercial consideration whatsoever, no interference from the record company, no influence from the fans, no influence from the media, we made the record we wanted to make. We're very lucky that the album is selling, but if we were to make an album that didn't sell, it would jeopardize our entire future. It would raise questions: 'shit, why are people no longer buying our records?'

"I used to have a 9 to 5 job and if my work wasn't done I would go back to work the next day and the same work would be waiting for me. Being an artist you are working 24 hours a day both physically and mentally. My job is my life and my life is my job. When someone comes up to you and says: 'I think your record really sucks!', they are not just criticising my 'work' but they are also criticising me, my personality, my soul, my heart, everything I've ever worked for. Six months writing, three months recording, two months mixing, three months interviews, six months touring and then someone turns to you and says: 'ah, your new record isn't as good as your last album!' So far we never had that experience as every record we released outsold the previous one. Of course, one day this is going to stop and to be honest with you I don't know how I'll feel. I like to think that it won't affect my artistic motivation in the slightest.

"Of course I'd rather have it the way it happens for me right now, that I don't have monster success overnight and fame comes bit by bit. For me it's much healthier than winning Pop Idol, selling two million albums and being forgotten three months later. Without going into my religious beliefs, I don't think there's an afterlife. I think this life is it, so we have to make the best of it while we still can. This is it, this is the gift, this is the gift of life. You shouldn't waste it doing this, if you don't believe in it. I don't believe an artist to be someone who already has a technical gift. I believe an artist is someone who can channel their perceptions, feelings and emotions in creating something that other people can enjoy. In that respect, Stevie Vai or one of these other guys who can play a million notes in one second is not my idea of an artist. My idea of an artist is someone like Frank Zappa or Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac, someone who plays three notes and it will speak to you. Same thing with Frank Sinatra. I'm not a perfect guitar player, I can't play the keyboards that well, but I have an ability to speak through my music. I have a musical personality and a musical vision. So for me the gift is not the playing, the gift lies in the intention and the integrity of what you do."

With Steve Wilson leaving the room in time for his soundcheck, new PT member Gavin Harrison is kind enough to share some time with us. Previous to his stint with the band, Gavin played a lot alongside Italian musicians, people such as Franco Battiato, Eros Ramazzotti, but also the great Claudio Baglioni. With Claudio, Gavin had the pleasure to work with Tony Levin and John Giblin. In 1999 Gavin even played for the Pope! Other artists he was involved with are Iggy Pop, Lene Lovich, Sam Brown, Incognito, Dave Stewart & Barbara Gaskin, Kevin Ayers, Paul Young, Lisa Stansfield, Bananarama, Level 42, Go West and many others. So how come Gavin suddenly finds himself to be a full-time member of Porcupine Tree? "I once joined Renaissance with Annie Haslam somewhere in 1983. I also worked with Manfred Mann on his Soft Vengeance album and recorded material for a joint album between Richard Barbieri and Tim Bowness called Flame in 1994 and a year later I played on Mick Karn's album The Tooth Mother.

"In fact, I have been friends with Richard Barbieri for quite some time now. One day Richard called me when Chris Maitland had just left PT. Four weeks later they needed to go to New York to make the new album and as we had worked together before he asked me if I was interested to come to New York with them to record the album. Steve and I both use the same computer program, so he brought me the audio files with just the programmed drums, which I could take away so I could drum live to it. So I needed like a week's preparation to learn the songs. I would have gone on a tour with Lisa Stansfield but I just cancelled it. I've been friends with Richard for about ten years now and he had played me some Porcupine Tree music over the years. I went to see the band in 2001 in London and was amazed that the hall was full. Normally the only halls which sell out are for artists like Danii Minogue or Girls Aloud but these guys were playing these strange rhythms and time signatures and weird uncommercial bits and pieces and the hall was packed. The sad lesson in rock is that people tend to listen with their eyes so it was a pleasant surprise to see so many enthusiastic faces for what was an evening of uncommercial music. If you have the world's largest drumkit they all think you're the world's best drummer!

"The nice thing of working together with the band now is that they give you a certain direction what to do but I can fill it in as I go along. Every night I play my parts completely different. Otherwise it simply wouldn't work if I had to play the same fills night after night. The arrangement is set, the tempo is set, the song structure is set but you can find different angles and different accents within the grooves, play different drum fills as you go along, and so far the rest of the band seems to like it. In fact we have one setlist and a half. So each night we would play a different setlist. Especially when we do two or three gigs in the same area fans tend to come and see us on more than one occasion and we want to give them another night to remember so we play different songs. It keeps the fans happy and it keeps the band happy as well! As a drummer, I also change the way the drums sounded on the older songs that we do. When I listen to the original recordings I'm amazed at how far I mutated these parts from what they used to be. Being part of the PT family, I also played three or four tracks on the upcoming Blackfield album. But I'm really looking forward to be part of the band when we start writing the new album later this year. I really feel very, very lucky to be part of such a talented outfit. For sure we are going to make some fantastic albums the coming years!"

Before the band gets something to eat, Richard Barbieri steps in to say a couple of words as well. "During this tour, virtually every night the audience has doubled in size compared with our previous tour. Regarding the leaving of Chris Maitland I find it sad that he has taken that decision just when the band is getting more possibilities due to another contract and a new label. Of course Chris has been an important part of the success of the band and it's such a pity that we have to continue without him, as he merits part of our current success as well. But then again that's life! With Gavin I think we have found the perfect replacement. From a technical point of view there's no doubt that Gavin is a much better drummer than Chris will ever be. On the other hand Chris has been such an integral part of the band that I often find myself guilty of having suggested the name of Gavin to the band.

"Meanwhile the sales of the new album are going extremely well whilst also the British press has been unanimously enthusiastic about In Absentia. The band is even seen as one of the forerunners of a new trend. I'm rather calm where that is concerned, because I already experienced all of that when I was with Japan. Due to our looks we were hyped in the media, but in the end we made more of an impact due to the way we looked and dressed rather than because of our musical statements. Luckily for Porcupine Tree people take us for what we are at face-value. It's that honesty and the transparency of the band which is winning us more and more fans. We worked hard for more than ten years but things are finally happening and we're ever so happy and proud about this. My sincere thanks to all of our fans all over the world for making this possible. We won't let you down!"

Porcupine Tree (l to r): Steven Wilson, Richard Barbieri
and Colin Edwin backstage with John "BoBo" Bollenberg

Photos: © 2003 John "Bobo" Bollenberg

Discography:
On The Sunday Of Life... (1991)
Voyage 34 (1992)
Up The Downstair (1993)
Voyage 34: Remixes (1993)
Staircase Infinities (1994)
Moonloop E.P. (1994)
The Sky Moves Sideways (1995)
Signify (1996)
Coma Divine - Recorded Live In Rome (1997)
Stupid Dream (1999)
Voyage 34 - The Complete Trip (2000/2004)
'4 Chords That Made A Million' (2000)
Lightbulb Sun (2000)
'Shesmovedon' (2000)
Lightbulb Sun - Special Edition (2001)
Recordings (2001)
Stars Die: The Delerium Years 1991 - 1997(2002)
In Absentia (2002)
In Absentia (European version) (2003)
Deadwing (2005)
Fear Of A Blank Planet (2007)
The Incident (2009)

Arriving Somewhere... (DVD) (2006)