Wakeman, Rick (August 2001)

Simply Rick Wakeman

This is the first interview to which I've been late, and I knew that this would have happened to the one I coveted the most ... however, I was fortunate enough, 'cause there was still plenty of time when I finally arrived (to the hotel where the meeting was set), thanks to the polite and easy-going personality of Mr. Rick Wakeman. To my (positive) astonishment he spoke fluently for more than an hour, transforming a simple interview into something else -- a fervent discussion about the (music) revolution that will take place somewhere in the near future ... or so we hope! ...

When I entered the room, the question had already been posted by the two other Italian boys that were there with me, so I pressed the REC button on my recorder and listened closely ... the master was speaking ...

Rick Wakeman: [talking about bootlegs, I guess, and the record industry - II] The Russians ... they are so clever ... I mean they know it's illegal, but they are clever. They listen around, knowing what young and old people really want. The record companies don't supply so they are pressing it up and selling it immediately. This shows that the music business has to change. The problem is that you have an industry that now has 40, well maybe 45 years, running. Some people, like myself, saw the birth of rock 'n' roll, so they know that there is a vast amount of music, a lot of history that spreads from the beginning of that period until today. Unfortunately the ones that are running the music industry now, are a little bit younger than me, for example, and they do not know the existence of all these records ... they are stupid, and I mean the word. They have this assumption that people are divided by age brackets, like 12-15, and you have this type of music, 15-19, and you have another one and so on, but this is crap! Crap! You can go to some concerts, well maybe not mine, but a lot of concerts and you'll see one of the most amazing age differences. Maybe there will be a group that has a majority, but you will likely see other people as well. A strange thing is that the amount of people vary from country to country. For example, when I play in Germany a lot of the audience ranges between 35-40 years, they are the old rockers. When I play South America this thing is quite different, as we have the main range between 20-25.

Igor Italiani: So the problem of the majors is that they set their targets ... and maybe they still don't work sometimes?

RW: The problem of the majors is that they still don't think global. They think territory, and the average person on the street thinks worldwide. The tragedy is, majors still don't. Within the next five years I guess that more than 50% of the records will be bought downloaded. No specific country source. There will be compilations: You make your own, you'll press up, download, thank you very much. It will be quick by then. There will be a lot of companies, big companies, that will disappear or they will be simply split up. It's very similar, to me, to what happened amongst the airline companies a few years ago. You had Pan Am, TWA ... they were so big, they were the dinosaurs of the airline industries, and they thought that they were so big that nothing could hurt them. Now they are gone, bankrupt! They didn't listen to people, people that used airlines. They didn't listen and they died. So I think that within the next few years there will be a minimum of two big names (record companies) that will disappear from the market. They will collapse. It's already happening in a small way, with a lot of movement among some well-known names. Some labels have already lost their identity with all those changes. The future looks very interesting. I think it will be like pure internet in many extents. The technology is already there, all we need are quicker downloads.

II: So Rick, speaking about this, what's your relationship with the new technologies?

RW: It's another tool that you can use. I like it. The thing is that a musician is a musician, he can always create something. The computer is programmed so it can't create anything without input. He can do things randomly, but so the musician will always be there to play. The thing that I appreciate with technology is that if you've got a problem, the technology can be there to help fix it. Instead an atrocious nightmare occurred in the eighties, when a lot of new technology arrived. In those days a lot of musicians rushed into the studio salivating about the possibilities that these new toys offered, wondering what could be done with the big capacities of machines. Fortunately this frame set of mind is gone now, and that's probably a reason why the guitar-based bands have returned to prominence, because they can actually play the songs that they put into the records. Another major problem that the keyboard-based bands face ... I was talking about that with Keith Emerson, who is a great friend of mine ... when we started we were very lucky, because there weren't keys with presets and nice sounds, so you spent three days always trying to get a new sound, and you went [miming a scene with two keyboard players - II]: "I, I got a sound, this is mine!" which was followed by: "Hey, how did you do that?" ... "I'm not showing you!" ... well, we were forced to do that! Today it's almost too easy with the tons of sound samples that the keyboards adopt. There's a nice sound, another one ... to a certain amount it never ceases to amaze. But virtually every keyboard now sounds the same, they seem to come with the same factory preset sounds, so that's the reason why I wipe off all the sounds of the keyboard when I get a new one. After that, I start to put back again sounds, new sounds that I create. I've always done it. Apart from the way you play, the sounds that you have distinguish yourself from the others. So the real problem is if you want to use technology to help you create the music you want, or if you want the technology to create your music. That's the subtle difference.

II: This is true. Now Rick, can we focus a little on your career as well? You've made a thousand records, but do you love them all the same or there is someone you love more than the others?

RW: No ... to be honest with you, I don't love them all the same. There are some that I really like and some that I don't like. Now you could say to me: "Why did you do the ones that you don't like much" ... but the truth is that you don't feel like that at the time (of the recording). Obviously the first ones I made have a special place in my heart, The Six Wives Of Henry VIII, Journey To The Centre Of The Earth. I also enjoyed doing big things like Return To The Centre..., but I like working on classical stuff, too. The thing that I love the most, however, is doing prog-rock albums. We (I and the New English Rock Ensemble) are in the middle of recording one, and it will go out probably in November. It's really the first prog-rock album since I recorded No Earthly Connection. I've waited deliberately a long time to do that for many reasons. First of all there was a period of time when prog rock was at its lowest point (in terms of popularity), so it would have been silly to do a prog album. I also wanted a band with which I could go out and play a minimum of 50-60 shows. I always prefer to have a amalgamated band and then do a record, instead of the contrary.

II: Speaking of albums, I've read in your biography that The Myths And Legends Of King Arthur was written while you were in the hospital, and also that it is related to your life as well. However, this particular aspect has never been mentioned in interviews, so what's the truth?

RW: Well ... if you want the truth, nobody never asked me [yes, I'm the first - II]. I love myths, legends and things like that. It's true that I was in the hospital while I wrote The Myths...; I had a heart attack and the doctors were unsure about my status, so I thought: "Better write this thing fast, 'cause I could die soon". So I wrote, and the fact that it is autobiographical is that there were things of my life that were running parallel to the story I wanted to talk about.

II: Another great point of your life ... well make it two, are the Centre Of The Earth works. Being written and performed more than twenty years apart, what are the basic differences amongst the two?

RW: Huge difference technically. First what you can do on record. In the seventies you couldn't put on records more than 40-45 minutes of music, and the maximum amount of tracks was 16. There were also huge problems recording live, because you couldn't do computer editing at the end, for one. With Return... we worked on 92 channels, quite a few. However we had a few problems for that as well, because we wanted to use the VST system; the main processor at the time was Intel Pentium II, and it couldn't handle what we wanted to do. So we worked with Intel, too, and you know ... the music for Return... is the first labour done with the Intel Pentium III. Another difference amongst the two albums is that I didn't write the orchestration for the first one, as opposed to Return.... Return... also took me a lot of time choosing and finding the right people I had in mind, cause someone was hard to afford and someone wasn't available, too. Believe me if I say that it cost me a large amount of money and time.

II: But how was to work with Ozzy (Osbourne)?

RW: Oh, Ozzy is great. Ozzy and I have been friends for ... 30 years now. He is a wonderful man. The thing is that a lot of people think of Ozzy only as a metal singer, eating birds, etc, Now, if someone thinks he is just a heavy metal hooligan, I suggest to him to go and listen the Ozzmosis [in which Rick participated - II] album. In some of the tracks you hear a marvelous job made by him in doing arrangements and putting stuff together. He is clever. He has an open mind. We were in New York 6 years ago, and I told him that I had this piece of music ["Buried Alive" - II] for him to sing, with this massive metal riff. I say: "I have this metal riff, I think it's good, but you should know that it will be played by the LSO (London Symphony Orchestra) on record." So he remains motionless for a moment and then says: "OK!" He loved it.

II: Rick. I know that you have already stated that it would be a miracle to see you once again as the keyboardist of Yes. However, I've heard some rumours that stated Adam or Oliver (two of your sons) as possible replacements for Igor Khoroshev, the last keyboardist of the band. What can you tell me about this one?

RW: No, these are rumours just floating around. Oliver is finishing his next opus titled The Ages Of Magick, then he has another work with Clive Nolan [Arena] in the wings. Adam does a lot of work with me. He will not be here tonight playing, only because he is on honeymoon in Perú, at the moment. He is real busy, because he works with Lisa Stansfield and other musicians as well.

II: But what can you tell me about the new Yes direction. They have an album with orchestra coming out as well?

RW: Well ... I've not seen the shows so far, and I haven't heard the music. They asked me if I was going to do the tour with the band, but it's a long, long tour. I could have found two/three weeks sometime, but the thing is that I can't erase all my immediate commitments to join them at the moment. I've got my TV show, my radio show, a new album coming out and the concerts that will follow the release. Another reason I haven't accepted is that working with an orchestra and Yes ... you should know that I have strong views about how the orchestra arrangements should be done, and I wouldn't like to come in and play on other people's arrangements. I can't go and see them in England, too, because I don't live in England anymore. I'm here in Italy much of the time [what?!!??!?! - II]. But you know what? Yes are always fantastic musicians, and I love them to death. I love the guys, but I can't afford to go to the concert and remain disappointed with the orchestral arrangements. The fact is that they have also small orchestras with them this time, and I like big orchestras!

II: But what is the Yes record that you love the most?

RW: Close To The Edge, without a doubt. I'm very, very proud of that record. The thing is that we had no idea of what we were doing but, at the same time, nobody (the record company, etc. ) understood what we were doing, too. So everyone stood back and didn't mess up with the music. That was good!

II: Talking now about the present, Rick, just this morning I was listening to a good prog outfit of the nineties, Cairo. Their sound is clearly influenced by yours ... what are your feelings in hearing that even today there are a lot of musicians who have taken your work as an inspiration and guide for their musical paths?

RW: It's lovely. If you go to South America there are hundreds of prog rock bands with people in their early years playing. That's why the audience is so young there. The fact is that people always take inspiration from the past and from people that they like, and I think this is nice [what a great person! -II]. I'll tell you one other thing ... it's good to play prog rock. Prog rock can be a lot of fun, even if someone, one day, said to me: "You can't tap your feet with this music, you must be epileptic". That's crap. That's absolutely crap! One thing is that there are a lot of talented musicians nowadays, and with the popular music that is going around the last 10-15 years they can't show what they can do with their instruments. Creativity has taken a back seat in the present, but the fault is not of the musicians.

II: Talking about this, I heard an interview with Mauro Pagani (ex-violinist of PFM) once, and he stated that a player with a good technique has a lot more ways to say something. He used the metaphor of the dictionary to explain this concept.

RW: Yes. It's right. For example, if you are a writer and you have a great, great imagination, but you only have the knowledge of a hundred words, your book will be limited to those hundred words. If you know a thousand words, believe me, your book will be undoubtedly better.

II: But what is the best prog country in 2001?

RW: South America [!?!?! - II]. Brazil, Argentina. The radio and TVs in those countries never divided music in categories. They only divide what they like from what they dislike. You have complete freedom on radio airwaves. It's not fixed like in Europe. They also don't put a date on anything. Here in Europe you listen to the radio DJ's going: "Here is a piece of music from 1992, or 1985 ..." Who cares? Who cares from what year the song comes. If it's a good piece of music it's a good piece of music. If it's not, it's not. Certain points of Europe are getting better at this, because people still love to go to concerts as well, they still want to see people performing music LIVE! (North) America, on the other side, is going really bad. However I think it will change sometime. It has to change. Recalling what we already said earlier about record companies, I would like to see one brave label go against the grain and take the distribution thing to another level. I mean, when Virgin was born, it was like that, but now it is bad like the others.

II: Well ... I think that Inside Out is doing a good job amongst the labels.

RW: Yes, they are a good label and have a great roster of artists, but they still have to go through the same doors to get to the public. I mean ... to go through MTV, radio, Tower Records ... instead I would like to see a new way of distribution. We have to do it in a different way. And I think that the change will come from an unlikely source, a place like Eastern Europe. They don't have a certain set of rules in this marketplace. They are also clever in monitoring the mistakes of the Western world and then capitalise on them. Sooner or later this system has to change.

II: Mmh ... before saying goodbye, Rick, what's your advice for the young prog musicians?

RW: Be honest with yourself! It's the first thing. Compose the music you love and listen to people that you like in the genre you have chosen. Be really honest when you make a comparison with them. Are you nearly as good? Have you a sound that you consider unique? It's difficult to make a fair evaluation, but try. Another thing ... a lot of people wanna go immediately into the studio and record the music so they can show it around, but you learn music most of the time when you play live. In the sixties, seventies the bands would go on tour for years before going in the studio. Yes spent 4 years on the road before recording the first album, Black Sabbath 6 years. One of the secrets of playing live is that you can see the reaction of the audience and capitalise on that, labouring on the things that don't seem to work.

II: One final mention on the project you should do with Keith Emerson?

RW: Well ... yes, it's been long running. I think it will be at least two years away. The fact is that we both know what we want to do and the money it will take, and we are accepting no compromises. It's not about being greedy or something else, is just that we don't want to do a "cheap" thing. A lot of record companies are interested in this, but half have suggested a budget lower than the one we have in mind, and another half have offered the budget but also strong influences on what should be the record. We don't want that, too. When somebody offers the money and no advice, then it will go out. There is only one way to do it, and I think that the project is getting closer and closer. The thing that was most disgusting in the whole process was that one major (company) came to us and said: "We'll give you fair promotion, you just have to go in the studio for two weeks and have some fun. You don't have to worry about quality too much, because with both of you on the record, a lot of people will buy the CD immediately." This is really disgusting. I don't manage things that way.

II: Obviously. OK, Rick, thank you very much for your time, it's been a real pleasure talking to you. Good luck for the concert and see you soon.

RW: Thank you, Igor. We'll meet again somewhere.

[Photo of Adam Wakeman, Oliver Wakeman, Clive Nolan with PW's John 'Bobo' Bollenberg courtesy and © Bobo]


Discography:
Piano Vibrations (1971)
The Six Wives Of Henry VIII (1973)
Journey To The Centre Of The Earth (1974)
Lisztomania (1975)
The Myths & Legends Of King Arthur & The Knights Of The Round Table (1975)
No Earthly Connection (1976)
Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record (1977)
White Rock (1977)
Animal Showdown (1979)
Rhapsodies (1979)
I'm So Straight I'm A Weirdo (1980)
1984 (1981)
The Burning (OST) (1981)
Rock N Roll Prophet (1982)
Cost Of Living (1983)
G'ole! (1983)
Crimes Of Passion (OST) (1984)
Live At Hammersmith (1985)
Lytton's Diary (1985)
Silent Nights (1985)
Country Airs (1986)
The Family Album (1987)
The Gospels (1987)
20th Anniversary Limited Edition (1988)
A Suite Of Gods (1988)
Custer's Last Stand/Ocean City (1988)
Time Machine (1988)
Zodiaque (1988)
Black Knights At The Court Of Ferdinand IV (1989)
Sea Airs (1989)
Phantom Power (1990)
In The Beginning (1990)
Night Airs (1990)
Phantom Power (1990)
2000AD Into The Future (1991)
African Bach (1991)
Aspirant Sunrise (1991)
Aspirant Sunset (1991)
Aspirant Sunshadows (1991)
Rock N Roll Prophet Plus (1991)
Softsword (1991)
The Classical Connection (1991)
Best Works Collection (1992)
Country Airs (1992)
Classic Tracks (1993)
No Expense Spared (1993)
Prayers (1993)
The Classical Connection 2 (1993)
The Heritage Suite (1993)
Unleashing The Tethered One - The 1974 North American Tour (1993)
Wakeman With Wakeman (1993)
Light Up The Sky (1994)
Live On The Test (1994)
Lure Of The Wild (1994)
Rick Wakeman's Greatest Hits (1994)
The Stage Collection (1994)
Wakeman With Wakeman - The Official Bootleg (1994)
Wakeman With Wakeman Live (1994)
Almost Live In Europe (1995)
Cirque Surreal (1995)
Rick Wakeman In Concert (1995)
Rock & Pop Legends (1995)
Romance Of The Victorian Age (1995)
The Piano Album (1995)
The Private Collection (1995)
The Seven Wonders Of The World (1995)
Visions (1995)
Can You Hear Me? (1996)
Fields Of Green (1996)
Orisons (1996)
Tapestries (1996)
The New Gospels (1996)
The Word And Music (1996)
Vignettes (1996)
Voyage (1996)
Welcome A Star (1996)
Fields Of Green '97 (1997)
Simply Acoustic - The Music (1997)
Tribute (1997)
Master Series (1998)
Themes (1998)
Official Live Bootleg (1999)
Return To The Centre Of The Earth (1999)
Stella Bianca Alla Corte De Re Ferdinando (1999)
The Masters (1999)
The Natural World Trilogy (1999)
White Rock II (1999)
Christmas Variations (2000)
Chronicles Of Man (2000)
Morning Has Broken (2000)
Preludes To A Century (2000)
Recollections - The Very Best Of Rick Wakeman (2000)
Rick Wakeman The Legend Live In Concert 2000 (2000)
The Caped Collection (2000)
Classical Variations (2001/2002)
Simply Acoustic (2001)
Out Of The Blue (2001)
Two Sides Of Yes (2001/2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 1 - The Real Lizstomania (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 2 - The Oscar Concert (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 3 - The Missing Half (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 4 - Almost Classical (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 5 - The Mixture (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 6 - Medium Rare (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 7 - Journey To The Centre Of The Earth + (2002)
Treasure Chest Volume 8 - Stories (2002)
Two Sides Of Yes - Volume II (2002)
Wakeman & Cousins -Hummingbird (2002)
Out There (2003)
Retro (2006)
Retro 2 (2007)
The Six Wives Of Henry VIII Live At Hampton Court Palace (2009)
Always With You (2010)
Past, Present And Future (2010)
Anderson/Wakeman - The Living Tree (2010)
Anderson/Wakeman - The Living Tree In Concert Part One (2012)
In The Nick Of Time (2012)
Journey To The Centre Of The Earth 2012 (2012)

Journey To The Center Of The Earth Live In 1975 (2001/2002) (DVD)
Rick Wakeman The Legend Live In Concert 2000 (DVD) (2001/2002)
Rick Wakeman & The English Rock Ensemble -Live In Buenos Aires (DVD) (2001/2002)
Rick Wakeman & The English Rock Ensemble -Out There (DVD) (2004)
Journey To The Centre Of The Earth Live In 1975 - 30th Anniversary Edition (DVD) (2004)
Made In Cuba (DVD) (2005)
Amazing Grace (DVD) (2007)
The Other Side Of Rick Wakeman (DVD) (2007)
Video Vault Volume 1 - 1975 Live At The Empire Pool - King Arthur On Ice (DVD) (2007)
Video Vault Volume 2 - Live At The Maltings 1976 (DVD) (2007)
Video Vault Volume 3 - Live 1980 Swedish Televsion Special (DVD) (2007)
Video Vault Volume 4 - 1984 Live At The Hammersmith Odeon 1981 (DVD) (2007)
Video Vault Volume 5 - Night Music (DVD) (2007)
Video Vault Volume 6 - Rarities Plus Interview (DVD) (2007)
The Six Wives Of Henry VIII - Live At Hampton Court Palace (BR, DVD) (2010)
Classical Wakeman Volume 1 - Live In Lugano (DVD) (2010)