Lucassen, Arjen Anthony (Ayreon, Star One, ...) (April 2002)

Arjen Lucassen: Human Or Intergalatic Space Crusader?

Arjen Lucassen is undoubtedly one of the most talented prog composers of the last ten years, and thanks to his various projects, like Ayreon or Ambeon, a lot of people have rediscovered the magic that once characterized the masterpieces of seventies' prog rock. But these days Arjen has bravely taken on a new mission, and with his Star One troops he has explored the obscure 'space metal' galaxy, returning triumphant once again ... so now it's time for you to discover this new world and also be prepared for the next trip, as the new Ayreon mission is just a few months away.

Igor Italiani: Hi Arjen...so how are you doin'?

Arjen Anthony Lucassen: Oh, I'm fine, thank you very much.

II: The first thing I would like to ask you is when and where are you going to play live with someone, anyone of your projects?

AAL: Ha-ha ... well, I will play live but without one of my projects. I have to go to Los Angeles next week to play with--

II: Lana Lane, right?

AAL: Oh well, you already know it. OK, I will play in Los Angeles and in Tokyo, as Lana and Erik [Norlander] invited me to do these two shows. At the first moment I said: "Wow, I don't know if I like that...," but then I thought: "Why not. It's a chance to go to Japan, to go to LA, to be in the Sun," you know. [chuckles] I want to see much more Sun ... even if I'll probably see only dressing rooms and stages in the end, ha-ha... So I'll play with Lana and it will be very important, because when I'm on stage, who knows, maybe there it comes a spark that ignites me to do a lot more shows in the future [by myself]. Probably I could come back and do some stuff with Star One ... but I'm not sure at the moment.

II: But you would start playing from Europe?

AAL: Yeah, it would be a short tour around Europe, I guess. With Star One it would be possible something like that. Instead with Ayreon that's not an easy thing to do, because there are way too many musicians in the project, so it's too hard to have them all, even for just one show.

II: But if you play live you have to include Italy...

AAL: Yeah, yeah, of course. What are you thinking? [laughs].

II: Well, speaking about your career, Arjen ... you had a lot of guests musicians on your albums, but is there someone you wanted but couldn't reach, at least for the moment?

AAL: Well, at the top of my list there is Ronnie James Dio. I still think he is the best heavy metal singer around, so I would be pleased to have him on my records.

II: But you have never asked him?

AAL: Oh, sure I did. I once met him after a show and he knew about Ayreon, so I gave him a CD and he gave me his e-mail address. But so far I haven't got an answer back. But I won't give up, I'll keep trying. And then I'm a big Alice Cooper fan. I'm a fan of him since I was young. You know, he is very different from the type of vocalists I usually run into, but it would be great to do something with him. Another one I would like to play with is David Gilmour, but I can already forget about it. I asked him about a collaboration, but he said he was not interested. That's a shame.

II: Mmh ... going on the Star One album ... you wrote that the songs were inspired by science fiction films and TV shows. Can you tell us some of the titles that inspired you? I ask you this because I still have to read the lyrics [they aren't on the promo] ... even if I have some ideas.

AAL: Yes, they are based on space movies. The only rule I followed is that the songs should portray space movies and science fiction. So that was the deal.

II: But you've included, for example, a Star Wars reference? I bet you have!

AAL: Yes; the funny thing is that I didn't have the Star Wars song yet, and then Russell Allen, who is a huge Star Wars fan ... [laughs]You know, every time he calls me he goes like this: "Oh, Luke, I am your father ... do you have the force...", [laughs] ... he is really funny, and he wanted me to do a song about Star Wars. So "Master Of Darkness" came out to please him.

II: Star Trek also...

AAL: Of course. How could I have kept out this incredible fiction? That's when it all started for me. I was, and still am, a HUGE Star Trek fan. "Songs Of The Ocean" is my tribute to this great story, and it's based on the Star Trek IV movie, the one in which they go back in time. [The Voyage Home ; It's the one where they bring a pair of whales to the future -ed.]

II: And maybe "The Eye Of Ra" is a reference to Stargate ?

AAL: Yeah, absolutely. You have won a prize, [chuckles] ... however Stargate is one of my favourite movies of all time.

II: And some of the other ones ..."Starchild," for example?

AAL: Well, "Starchild" is based on the 2001: A Space Odyssey movie of Stanley Kubrick, which was/is one of the biggest space movies of all time, and one of the most imitated ones, in my opinion.

II: One of my favourite songs is "Intergalactic Space Crusaders," which is more up-tempo than the other ones. It has a strange vibe going on...

AAL: This song is not based on a movie, but on a very cult science fiction series from England. It was a series from the BBC, from the seventies. It was a really bad series with, you know ... the actors couldn't act, it was so bad that in the end it was great (in a certain way). I loved that series. [ Blake's 7 I believe; based on the press release, not Arjen's description. :-) -ed.] That, and the one with Doctor Who.

II: Oh great, I loved Doctor Who, too. OK Arjen, on the bonus CD there's also a cover of a David Bowie's song ["Space Oddity"], where you play all the instruments. Why did you choose that song?

AAL: Yes; of course because it was tied with 2001: A Space Odyssey, but also because Inside Out told me we could release a bonus CD, so I thought a lot about what to include on it. I wanted to do some covers, because I hadn't got enough songs for myself, so of course I was thinking: "What can I do?" And after a brief search "Space Oddity" by David Bowie came up. I loved that song.

II: But you could have chosen a Yes song, for example, as your style of playing is similar to that of Rick Wakeman.

AAL: Well, did they ever make a space song ... oh, well, there is "Starship Trooper," but you know ... I wanted to do a song that was very diverse to what I usually play, because there is also a better chance to do a brilliant cover, which has to be at least diverse from the original. And besides that it is very dangerous to touch a Yes song. But you know, I would really love to play with Rick ... and I'll tell you this ... I once asked him about playing with Ayreon, and in principle he said yes. So who knows, maybe it will happen in the next album. The thing is that I'm also in contact with his son, Oliver Wakeman, who is another great musician.

II: Yes, I agree on that one. They are an incredible duo. OK, let's return to the album. Was it harder to compose the songs or write down the lyrics?

AAL: No, the songs were easy to compose, 'cause it's metal with spacey guitar riffs. You know, I played live for more than fifteen years, and I've done this kind of material so many times, that it was not difficult. For me it's just a matter of plugging in my guitar and listening that heavy sound ... then 'wham' ... here come out the heavy riffs! So that comes natural, and I think that in a couple of days I had the riffs ready. But I thought the lyrics would be easy, too, and I was wrong. The thing is that I set the rule of writing down about space movies, then I bought a DVD, because I already wanted to buy one. So I got a good excuse to buy the DVD player ... and you know, I can deduct it from the taxes, which is great too ... [laughs] ... OK, so I also bought a new TV and settled on watching a new bunch of spacey DVDs. But it was really tough to write something, because I wanted to avoid using real names ... I wanted to make subtle references, and it was harder than I imagined. But in the end I think it worked out.

II: Now can you tell me something more about the collaboration with Vincent Di Fate, the author of the front cover artwork? Was he contacted simply to make the image or is there a deeper bond, like the one with Mattias Noren, who did the inlay booklet and who is a great fan of Ayreon?

AAL: No, the image of Vincent Di Fate's already existed [created in 1999 for an anthology edited by Gardner Dozois -ed.]. When I searched throughout the web for the right image, I stumbled on that one and I immediately thought: "Wow, that's it". So I e-mailed the artist and asked for permission [to use the image]. It just happened that the author was Vincent Di Fate, who is a big name out there, as he is a famous professor, and he works for NASA, too. I asked the authorization and of course it was pretty expensive to do it, but it was better than to have a new image created by him especially for the album. However he isn't a fan of Ayreon like Mattias is. You know, working with Mattias is great, and he is the guy of the future in my opinion. It was so wonderful to team up with him, and I think that's really important to have joy when you work out on something. Not only the results are important when you work, but also how you do it.

II: Now what about the hidden track placed at the end of the album? I mean, it's so funny it looks like some Primus outtake!

AAL: [Laughs]Well it was like this ... I can't do such a song with Ayreon, because that project is really serious, with beautiful endings, and to put a weird song like this ... well, it would ruin everything. So this was the right time to do it, because I had this bonus CD to fill. So I said: "Let's do a joke." At the very last moment I grabbed my guitar and I suddenly remembered this funny Donovan song from the seventies. You know, when it was finished I said to the members of Inside Out: "Now I've got something really weird to put onto [the disk]. You decide if you want to include it, but I already know it's a killer!" [Laughs].

II: Arjen, you started your career with more straightforward bands like Vengeance, so when did you begin to steer your attention to prog rock?

AAL: Oh, I've always been a prog rock fanatic, even before Vengeance. However I think I started to love the genre with Pink Floyd, yeah. I love them from the very beginning, also the Syd Barrett era. Then it was Emerson, Lake and Palmer ... when I heard them it was like: "Wow, this is the kind of music I like. I want to do this in the future." And then Genesis came along, Camel ... all these great bands. But somehow I also discovered Deep Purple, so now here are these two sides inside of me. The rock side and the prog side. But in the bands I was before Vengeance I couldn't experiment this true passion of mine, because there wasn't space for a keyboard player, so ... I had to wait until I could do my own thing.

II: But which genre do you enjoy the most, prog metal or prog rock?

AAL: You know, I grew up in the seventies, with prog rock, so my roots are definitely in prog rock, even if there are some great things happening in the prog metal universe. And that's why it is so good to be on Inside Out label now, because all their releases are brilliant, you know.

II: So you think your relationship with Inside Out will continue in the future?

AAL: Well, I guess that if this Star One album goes well, which I expect it to, because it's been received very well so far ... I'm sure that if this one is a success I'll surely do another Star One album. Also the collaboration with InsideOut is brilliant; they make no problems about anything. They make a very good promotion, too, and that's very important. So the relationship is great, and I obviously want to continue working with them.

II: But will there also be another Ambeon album or not?

AAL: I would like to do another Ambeon album, because I think that the first one was a little bit cold. I think I can do better. The fact is that I did everything on a computer, and I perfectly remember myself sitting in front of this screen for half a year. Another thing is that I didn't know Astrid that well, and of course there is so much more inside this girl than what she did on Ambeon. She is a great, great talent. But after Star One I've decided to do another Ayreon album, so time will be a big problem. And I don't know where I could go with the next Ambeon album, 'cause I could explore more electronics, or metal, folk, whatever...

II: On the other hand when will the the next Ayreon album be ready?

AAL: Well, I'm already working on it. It seems I can't sit still. My mind is always working, [chuckles] ... even in my sleep I can imagine some music ... but I think that the next Ayreon album will be more progressive and less heavy, because I could put my heavy ideas on Star One. So I think that the next album will be more in the style of Electric Castle. Another big rock opera. Obviously it will be another concept, 'cause Ayreon will always be a concept project.

II: OK ... so Arjen, before the end I have a little curiosity ... last year I was talking with Lana Lane, and she told me you live in a big castle, far away from large cities and modern society. So how do you relate with the growing madness of the urban landscape?

AAL: Well, I will tell you the truth now ... I'm an alien from outer space, [laughs] ... I mean, that's why I write all these concepts about science fiction...

II: Ah, so that's why it's easy for you?

AAL: Yes, because I experience everything all by myself, [laughs] ... but to tell you something else, I don't miss a lot the big cities and the chaos that's going on there. I've grown up in a city, but now I love this way. I'm always working in my studio, in my home, and I love running, jogging...

II: And you run around your house, so if it's big you probably run a lot!

AAL: Yeah, ha-ha. I run nearly two hours ... only circling around my house...

II: So you have a big house...

AAL: Yeah. So I love jogging and I love nature. We've got lots of cats, we've got horses...

II: Great. So Arjen, I think that's enough. Is there's something else you wanted to say to the prog fans out there in Italy, but also in the world and ... from outer space?

AAL: [Laughs] Yeah, I think it's good that prog rock is returning. And I think that the term progressive stands for "there are no boundaries," so whether it's metal, or prog, or whatever you know, it's a good thing. Don't close your eyes to just one style. There's so many great albums coming out. Progressive fans are learning to like metal, and metal fans are learning to like prog, so I think that's something wonderful happening. That's the way it should be. Even if I don't dig too much things like rap, or reggae ... but maybe they are not in my roots, so it's hard to relate to them.

II: But what about nu-metal bands? For example, I think that some of these bands are making good songs out there, and in fact they link themselves to great outfits like Faith No More, which were true progressive in my opinion...

AAL: Well, I don't like nu-metal, but you are right about Faith No More, they were fantastic. Yes, I remember when I saw "From Out Of Nowhere" or "Epic" on TV, and I was: "Oh, what's happening. It's aggressive music, but there is still melody." I think that's what is important for me. Nu-metal would be great if there would be great melody, but most of the times it's only pure aggression.

II: OK. It's time to say goodbye, Arjen. Thank you very much, as I really enjoyed the talk. Remember that I hope to see you here in Italy as soon as possible.

AAL: Thank you Igor. It was a pleasure for me, too. I'll try to come there. Bye.

Discography:
Ayreon - The Final Experiment (1995)
Ayreon - Actual Fantasy (1996)
Ayreon - Into The Electric Castle (1998)
Ayreon - The Univeral Migrator Part 1: The Dream Sequencer (2000)
Ayreon - The Universal Migrator Part 2: Flight Of The Migrator (2000)
Ayreon - Ayreonnauts Only
Ambeon - Fate Of A Dreamer (2001)
Arjen Anthony Lucassen's Star One - Space Metal (2002)
Arjen Anthony Lucassen's Star One - Live On Earth (2003)
Ayreon - The Human Equation (2004)
Ayreon - Actual Fantasy Revisited (2004)
Ayreon - The Final Experiment - Special Edition (2005)
Stream Of Passion - Embrace The Storm (2005)
Ayreon - 01011001 (2008)
Arjen Lucassen's Guilt Machine - Arjen Lucassen's Guilt Machine (2009)
Arjen Anthony Lucassen's Star One - Victims Of The Modern Age (2010)
Ayreon - The Theory Of Everything (2013)
The Gentle storm - The Diary (2015)