Barrett, Nick (Pendragon) (May 2005)

Into The World Of Pendragon: A Chat With Nick Barrett

Pendragon probably don't need any introduction to progressive rock listeners - along with IQ and Marillion they are household names of the "second wave" of progressive rock bands. With six studio albums to their credit, plus live releases and compilations, Pendragon are looking to release their seventh album, Believe this fall. Joshua Turner spoke with vocalist / guitarist / lyricist Nick Barrett in April 2005 about life under the standard of Pendragon*. Says, Turner, "Through several strange occurrences, it seemed like fate was against us in getting a live conversation put together. At one point, the wrong phone number was passed on, so we continued conversing through email. We had to work out time zone differences and the time before his son was in a minor motorcycle accident. At one point, I had to correspond with his girlfriend to clear up the confusion. Finally, we found a time that worked for the two of us and it was all set to go. I rushed home to get the call at the agreed upon time. As I walked in the door, the phone was ringing and I immediately picked up."

Joshua Turner: Hello?

Nick Barrett: Hi, Josh?

JT: Hello, yeah.

NB: Yes, Nick, Nick from Pendragon. How are you doing?

JT: I'm doing pretty good. It's, it's nice to finally get a chance to talk you.

NB: I know, yeah, I laugh after all this time. [he laughs] Sorry about the confusion. I think fate has conspired against us on a number of occasions. [I laugh; it's so true]

JT: That's okay. It looks like things are turning up now. Um, I've been listening to a lot of your albums lately and I'd like to see the music live at some point. I'm just wondering if you're planning any upcoming tours, concerts, or any festivals?

NB: You know the weird thing is, that's quite coincidental, because even though nothing's confirmed yet, we are, um, hoping... we've been asked to, uh... do NEARFest next year.

JT: Oh really?

NB: Yeah. I mean, I know it's a year [away], but, you know, it would be a fantastic thing to do. I mean, it's not confirmed yet. I don't know when it will be, but I think after July they're going to organize it. They're going to really start to get... confirm everything, so, you know, we, we might be coming over to you.

JT: That's great. I was considering going to NEARFest next year actually, so it might just time out pretty good for the two of us.

NB: Yeah, well, hopefully we can go ahead and do it. You know, we'll be going for the first time since '95. It's been ten years since we've played in the states. [ProgFest in Los Angeles -ed.]

JT: Wow!

NB: Yeah, it's [been] quite awhile.

JT: You know, I've always wondered, where does the name Pendragon come from? How did you come up with that name?

NB: The name Pendragon, it's actually [from] English history. Pendragon is the name of King Arthur's father who was called Uther Pendragon and the family name was Pendragon, so King Arthur was Arthur Pendragon and I think it's kind of Cornish or Welsh. We're not absolutely sure, but, it's all English mythology.

[*In some tellings, the term/name Pendragon was also said to be a title; e.g., that Uther was a Pendragon. But, the thing with Arthurian Legends is that there as many variations as there are tellers, so... -Arthurian Legends buff ed.**]

JT: Nobody else sounds like your band. Your music is quite original, quite unique. I'm wondering if you could describe your songwriting process? How you come up with this music?

NB: The songwriting is... I remember hearing, it was Ian Anderson from Jethro Tull described songwriting once as... a mixture of pure ecstasy and total self-loathing, [we laugh], which it kind of tends to be. It's so difficult, because sometimes... I mean, nowadays I might have come up with maybe the title or just the kind of ideas to base the songs on and maybe kind of a few riffs or something and then enlarge on those. So it kind of has a few ways of starting. I mean, I might even sit down at the keyboards and get... some kind of chord progression or something, but it won't really mean anything. And then I might put it in the musical drawer for awhile and then I might get a title for something and... you know, then kind of marry the two things up. I mean... for the song, for example, on the last album [Not Of This World], "Man Of Nomadic Traits" I had that guitar intro riff for quite some time, but I couldn't see what to do with it. You know, what is it going to be about? What are the lyrics going to be about? What was the feel of the song going to be about? And then as time goes on, you know, you get the ideas for the kind of concept of the song then glue those to the chord progression that you have and then something exciting comes out of there and then, you know, when you have that excitement, you know you're kind of on the way to something then.

JT: Sure. As I've said, I've been listening to a lot of your music lately and I find that your music tells a story. I just wanted to ask you about a few of your songs to find out what they're actually about.

NB: Okay.

JT: For starters, what is the song "2 AM" about? [fromKowtow]

NB: "2 AM" is about... two o' clock in the morning, out in the streets, in the city and then going into a bar, sitting there, and having a drink and then just start thinking about the world and thinking about your position, situation, and 2 AM is the time. Very early on in it you can hear a match strike, which is supposed to be like lighting a cigarette and then... you hear the saxophone sort of come in and out and that's supposed be sort of like a guy walking through a street and then he's finding the bar. It's supposed to be sort of a hazy cigarette smoking, drunken thing, two o' clock in the morning and then, you know, it's sort of one of those things that a lot of people do. They kind of get to that point at night and they suddenly start thinking about, you know, what's the... where's their life going, you know? And they, they've kind of had a lot to drink and they kind of sort of become below the cover of emotions and that's the song.

JT: Interesting. And actually I'm very curious what the song "Paintbox" is about. [from Masquerade Overture]

NB: "Paintbox" is all about... I mean, you know, you were saying a minute ago that our songs tell a story. They're all sort of about things... similar kind of variety, I suppose, but "Paintbox" is about... charting your own course in your life. You know, painting your own path to what you want to do and we all have that, uh, selection of colors to choose from. It's just whether we do choose them.

JT: Cool and what's "As Good As Gold" about? [from MO]

NB: "As Good As Gold," that is about my son. He [wasn't] actually born then - I think he was just about to be born, but it was a kind of an insight into children and how they grow up and they start out. You know, the phrase "as good as gold," the mother always said he's as good as gold. I can't understand how he's ended up taking drugs and getting in trouble with the police, riding motorbikes around and things, [the irony is, the second time we tried to talk, his son had a minor motorbike accident] so the song's about that. I guess it's kind of like... distorted innocence, you know. We all think our children... I mean, the song [was] written just before Max was born, so it's supposed to... we'll get this kind of impression that we're going to have... real nice babies and they're going to be nice children. We never think they're going to grow up and be anything bad, so that's the song. That's "As Good As Gold."

JT: And also my favorite song of all of yours, "Man Of Nomadic Traits," what's that one about?

NB: That's about having the experiences of finding... probably something more than the technological side of life. I mean, a ton of writing, that song, a whole album, I was going through a divorce and, well, I went through a divorce. So, you know, a lot of that album is about sort of a spiritual side and trying to escape, um, things that were very earthly, you know, very much so. I was really... I really started to kind of hate things like, you know, computers and technology and, um, became very kind of mind-numbing in a way and I liked to do things like surfing and... you know, get out into the countryside and I found that was very pure, very simple and, you know, like a million miles away from all, all the confusion that technology brings. I can't setup my computer. I'm just lost at where to start, you know; I think many people are like this. Have you ever seen that movie Brazil?

JT: Yeah.

NB: Yeah. You know, it can go on to create a million more and more like this in the world, going on to create, you know, some very big problems for ourselves. I mean, I know people over here [who] work and say, "hey, you know the volume of work that we do now is huge." Well, why? Because we can, because computers deal with it, but they also... you know, get a moment of human error and suddenly you've got huge trouble, you know, people being accused of things they didn't do and this is kind of starting to happen now a little bit over here and, um, I think we've forgotten about sort of who we are a little bit. That song was all about finding that again through, you know, really the great outside, because I did. To let you know, when I split up with my wife, I liked camping a lot, you know, sleeping out under the stars and, you know, just in fields and places, and going surfing and... I really sort of got back into, you know, going fishing and things like that. I really got back into, you know, the great thing you can get from nature.

JT: Yeah, is that kind of a common theme with you, just traveling and trying to find your place in the world with songs like "Black Knight," "The Voyager," and "Man Of Nomadic Traits"?

NB: Very much so, very much so. They're all sort of slightly different, I mean, I'm writing a song at the moment on the new album which is about sort of discovering humanity again, which I think we've sort of forgotten. Again I suppose it sort of comes with the development of things, you know. We all kind of view, hey, the Internet's great, hey, this is great, it's faster and it's better and it's quicker, but, you know, there is always a downside and people often forget that and we, we kind of in some ways... I mean, we have in England in a way, we've kind of forgotten who we are. I mean, politically, you know, we've become so confused with being told that we can't say or even think anything about another type of person. But people become very confused in, in who they are, you know, we've lost our sense of humor about, um, things. I mean, I do think, maybe you don't have this so much in the States, but, you know, people are getting too frightened now to think. I mean, you couldn't make a joke about anyone's sort of creed or color, because you're just called a racist straight away. But, you know, I have friends from different creeds and colors and, and their kind of cultures are humorous about who they are, you know. On one-to-one it's okay, but we can't over here, we can't get the government saying you can't do this.

JT: Interesting.

NB: Yeah, and it's a really weird, um, way that the world is going with this, I think. So, you know, it's our kind of humanity. We, we, should, um, perhaps be applauding people's differences rather than, you know, these other creeds and colors and things rather than just trying to make everyone be the same, which I think, you know, would be kind of odd doing that a bit.

JT: To take things back a step, my favorite song that I was talking about, "Man Of Nomadic Traits," is also on my favorite album Not Of This World.

NB: Oh, really?

JT: Yeah; I'm just wondering is that a concept album?

NB: Yeah, [he laughs] uh, I mean the last four... and the next one as well... I mean, they all have concepts, which starts out as some kind of concept and they kind of go off on roads. I mean, really the last album was trying to find... it was inspired by, really, by my divorce and, uh, after straightening out my life, I was really kind of just felt completely broken by it and trying to find some answers to things. I just couldn't find them, so I started looking for answers that were more kind of non-worldly-based, more kind of spiritual-based and that's, you know, where I came up with this sort of "Not Of This World" thing and the whole... I mean, "Man Of Nomadic Traits" is obviously something, which is, um, you know, not directly connected to that, but it's kind of a feeling of part of it, if you know what I mean. You know, obviously doing the things I was doing like going surfing and going camping were kind of not of this world. They were like doing something different, taking yourself away from that, out of that life, but they all have a bit of a concept running there.

JT: You started to touch upon the new album. What can we expect from the new album?

NB: With the new album... it's always very difficult to say, because when you've done it and recorded it, you can look back and say, "oh yeah, that's what it was about." At the time, you know, all you're really trying is to make the best music you can and, um, I don't know, I think my influences are probably been a bit different over the past few years. I'd say it's probably more guitar-based, and there are a different set of influences. I mean, there is some stuff, which is almost kind of like Latin. It's got some Latin flavors, because there are a lot of acoustic guitars on this album. But, you know, then sometimes I listen to it and I think, well, it's sort of not, it's kind sort of a little bit like The Window Of Life. Quite rocky in a some ways, but, uh, I like songs that kind of flow, so even if it has a difficult change in it, like going from something that is rocky to something that is very quiet and acoustic in the same song, I still like it to flow. I don't like it to sound awkward, so I hope that the idea is that even if I say some things are rocky and some kind of sort of Latin influences, there is this flow that makes everything still sound sort of cohesive, held together I hope sort of by the vocals. I think the vocals are very important to make something overall sort of work. And the material on the next album... you know, I think the vocal melodies are good, I mean, I'm pleased with it, so, uh, yeah, it's a little bit different from the last four that we've done I suppose. There's probably a little less keyboards, but I don't know.

JT: All of your music is great, but it just seems to be getting better and better with time. I'm really looking forward to hearing the next one.

NB: Oh, that's great. Great to hear, yeah. Brilliant.

JT: I'm also wondering, who would you say are your musical influences?

NB: Crumbs! When we first started out, I guess it was bands. I mean, when I first got into music, bands like T Rex, Slade, it was all the glam rock bands from the seventies. I mean that sort of... my musical era was the seventies [no surprise here] and, you know, people like Rod Stewart, when they were in The Faces and... all that kind of early seventies pop music I thought was just the best thing. I just loved it. Then I got into something more hard rock like... Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin. I loved Jimi Hendrix and then from there... I got into Pink Floyd and I finally got into Genesis, which took quite a struggle, because I was used to sort of pop music and short songs and, you know, very direct kind of lyrics. Uh, you know, like "Smoke On The Water," ... very straightforward rock. And then to get, stuff like "Lamb Lies Down On Broadway," I mean, the first thing that I... when I first was lent... someone lent me a tape of Lamb Lies Down On Broadway and I played it, and played it, and played it. I thought, how does this guy remember all these words, you know? [I laugh] It felt so wordy and complex, the words were so complex, and I couldn't really understand what it was about. I used to work in a hotel in a kitchen and this guy was a chef and he used to play Genesis all the time and he lent me this tape and so I would go home and then I started school there. I used to come home from school and I used to play this Genesis tape and I'd think, ah, no, I just can't get my head around this. And then one day after about two or three weeks, I came home from school and played it like I did for the two weeks and I just suddenly dropped everything and thought, my goodness, this is the best music that I've ever heard and I think I was listening to something like "Carpet Crawlers" or "Chamber Of 32 Doors" and I thought, this is just amazing, and then I really got into this kind of like whole progressive thing with bands like Camel and... I was really into Genesis. They were really my favorite band.

JT: Yeah, I find the same thing. It takes awhile to grab you and then once it does, it really gets you.

NB: Yeah, that's kind of a rarity nowadays. I mean, I remember reading a review that said, it takes what used to be a good listen, which is what people used to do in the seventies, like Yes with The Yes Album. I mean, shit, you can't just put a Yes album on and expect to like it in the first listen. I mean, you need to work those albums and play them a lot and then once you do... get it, it's like a piece of classical music, you know. It just stays with you forever. I still listen to Trick Of The Tail.

JT: Oh yeah, that's a great one.

NB: ?And Dark Side Of The Moon. I'm taken back to a period of time. I mean, the sound is immensely powerful, because it's so reminiscent of a time in my life and I think everyone has these albums, these special albums, you know. Bands that really mean something to them. I mean, these are classic albums, yeah, maybe albums that aren't instantly likeable, but you like them after a period of time. I think that's maybe a sign of a good album.

JT: I hear people talking about Pendragon the way you're talking about Genesis.

NB: Yeah?

JT: Yeah!

NB: Well, that's an amazing thing to hear.

JT: The ironic thing is that I see music like food and it's like nowadays all we are getting is fast food in terms of music, but the progressive rock is where all the gourmet stuff is.

NB: Yeah. I think a lot of it is, um... I mean, I've sort of got quite a few musical influences or musical plates [cool how he picks up the analogy] that I would pick from. I still like a lot of pop music... not, not pop music, um, I don't like dance music and I don't like rap music, but my son really likes Eminem, so I kind of get to hear some of that. But I can sort of see what he is trying to do. But I do like a lot of... I sort of like a lot of the modern-American punk-grunge stuff. I mean, you know that's just superb. It sounds sort of progressive, but it still has a lot of energy in it. Because I like Motocross, as well... a lot of this music is on Motocross videos. With these kinds of bands and... my son likes it as well, you know; it's great. It's very kind of hard rock, but... it's quite modern as well and I really like that sort of thing at the moment. But I like a lot of Latin music, a lot of classic music, a lot of jazz, a lot of jazz rock. But anything of good quality sticks. I don't know if it's just the progressive stuff, but I mean, I find myself coming back to those old albums quite a lot. Dark Side Of The Moon I think will probably always be my favorite ever album.

JT: How did you decide that you wanted to become a guitarist and a vocalist?

NB: Well, that was sort of by default. I definitely wanted to become a guitarist, because... having sort of listened to bands like T-Rex, I mean, when I was sort of, I don't know, like ten or eleven... I mean, my sister used to play the guitar, so, you know, even when I was seven, I think I sort of started when I was seven, my sister used to play the guitar and she was playing like these simple straightforward folk songs and, like "Home On The Range"... I think she was playing, something like that... so I picked up a few chords and learned how to play. But it wasn't until I got to sort of like 10 or 11 [that] the guitar really was something that I wanted to have to be there to a great degree and... even to the point where I was 17 or 18 where, by that point, I got into people like Al Di Meola, who, you know, I just love. I think he is absolutely fantastic, brilliant technician as well as... I mean, now his music is just fantastic, even if you don't like the technical playing. His music I just think is superb and I like it even more now, now that it's less technical than it was, you know. Back in the seventies, I mean, I guess he's sort of like Pat Metheny now, but... You know, this kind of really inspired me on. There was always somebody doing something different guitar-wise. I wanted to be able to do that and I would keep practicing until I was more or less able to do that, so the guitar thing was sort of a natural progression. The vocalist thing was, uh, [he laughs]... it just kind of ended up as... the one guy in the band, Julian, who was another guitarist... he was a good vocalist but he left. The drummer was a good vocalist as well, Nigel Harris... um, he played drums on The Jewel album and... I mean, he's a phenomenal drummer and he was a good vocalist, but we just figured that he really wasn't going to work out. I mean, a drummer vocalist. Live it wasn't going to work even though Nigel was a good vocalist, it just wouldn't look right. We sort of felt it would hold us back. It was sort of down to me to brush up, you know, on my singing really. And so it was kind of the case, well, you're the front, you sort of... should give it a go, maybe not for all, but for a few songs. So I started doing a few songs and before I knew it, I was doing all of them... but I started to enjoy it. I mean, vocals are a very important part now of songs. It's sometimes really hard recording them, you know, because vocals sometimes you don't feel like singing them. Guitar you can pretty well do now almost anytime, but singing something you've got to be in the mood for, so I don't know. But live I do like singing. It's great.

JT: It's kind of funny that you bring up the drummer vocalist thing, because it happened with Phil Collins and Genesis and now it recently happened with Spock's Beard as well, with the drummer doing the singing, and it doesn't really work having both happen at the same time? Talking about your band, your entire band is great. They're all exceptional players and I'm just wondering how did you meet all these talented musicians.

NB: Well, um, crumbs. Well Clive [Nolan, keyboards], I've known since I [was] 4 years old. We went to the same school and... I mean I joined the school at 4 and... went up to this kid and I was sitting next to him. I supposedly had a cold and sneezed all over him and, um, then he introduced himself and... at the time, I mean, his parents were music teachers, so they taught him to play the piano and he was learning the violin as well, so you know, he was very competent on the piano, plus he was learning violin also. He went on later to go to university and study composition as well, so he's very accomplished when it comes to breaking down the nuts and bolts of a piece of music, you know. Clive can pinpoint things very accurately to what they are and sometimes you need that, you know, if you can't tell if something's a quarter of a beat, how or where it should be. He sort of has a sense where he knows, so he's had a phenomenal amount of training and I was lucky to meet [him] when I was younger, because we grew up, we became best friends and then we drifted apart when we were about, I don't know, what 8 years old, 8 or 9 years old. And I met him again, I think I was probably about twenty something. I've met, actually, I think I met him on and off a couple of times in my teens, but we kind of... we had our lives. And then I met up with him again in my twenties, when we were coming up to London to see record companies and we would stay at his house because it was quite near London. So we'd stay there, go and see the record companies, and then come back and we didn't have a keyboard player and... uh, we did, we did have one, but he left and we didn't have a keyboard player at this point. We went back to Clive. Suddenly he said, "Well, I'll do it if you like" and, you know, we've never looked back since. You know, that was sort of like 1986. He's been with us ever since, so that was brilliant.

I mean, Peter [Gee, bass] I have known for years and years as well. He was a friend of my brother's, I think, when I was about 13, 14, and he was really into, uh, playing the guitar and he was into bands and everything and the whole bit and, um, we already had a bass player and we had a guitarist -- another guitarist, but that guitarist left -- and we asked Peter to join and he was absolutely over the moon. I mean, when we asked him to join the band. So, we got him in his guitar then he... our bass player left, so then he took over as a bass player and that's been pretty much the same ever since. And Fudge [Smith, drums] was in a band called La Host. I mean, out of all the progressive bands, I thought he was probably the most accomplished drummer and, Host had just split up. It was about 1986, I think it was; our drummer had just left, that was Nigel and we had a guy who was there, Matt Anderson was there for about six months, but he couldn't... he couldn't hack it. He didn't really like the touring side of things, so he... packed that in. And then we got Fudge on board, which was fortunate, because La Host had just split up. Unfortunate for them, fortunate for us, and it [has] stayed that line-up ever since, which has been great.

JT: Fortunate for your fans that you were able to find all these talented musicians and all come together to make this great music.

NB: Yeah. If we actually had to this all over again, I think it would be very hard. But, uh, you know, when you're kind of in your early twenties, most of the people you mix with are the musicians and the network of progressive bands is unbelievable. I mean, everybody knows everybody and it really doesn't take very much to, for the word to get around that somebody is looking for, you know, a drummer or a guitarist or something like that and, um, you know, you can get somebody pretty quick.

JT: Yeah, I actually have kind of a fun question here. Some artists have difficulty answering it, [he laughs] but, uh, can you recall any Spinal Tap moments [he laughs] that have occurred with this band?

NB: Well, probably most of the time. Spinal Tap moments! There... yeah, there probably have been... I mean, you're right, it's actually quite difficult when you sort of have to come up with something.

JT: Just some oddball thing that maybe happened during recording or on tour or in a concert.

NB: We've had quite a few strange things happen. I mean, we did have, uh, [he chuckles] we had one situation a few years ago where we were going to South America. It was the first time we've ever been there and we were going to Brazil and, uh, Argentina and Chile as well, which was really something, you know. We couldn't wait to go and, uh, and we got to the airport and we had some time to kill and we went up to the counter where they do the tickets and then we went to check our flights coming back and they said, "Well, we're very sorry, but you don't seem to have any flights booked" and we thought, well, it's not a big deal, it's just a computer error, you know; we'll solve it. I mean, you know, the airport on the other end before we come home and Fudge just turned around and said, "well, if there is no tickets, no return tickets, I'm not going" and everyone thought, yeah right, that's really funny, a good joke, okay, right, well, let's go through the gate, and he said "no really." [he laughs] He said if there aren't any tickets booked, I'm not coming, I'm not coming on the trip and we thought he was joking, but he wasn't; he was absolutely serious and, he said to us, "I'll come along on this, but if we get to Brazil and we go to the desk there and find there is still no tickets, I'm coming home." [I laugh] Can you believe that?

JT: No.

NB: It's incredible, and what happened is, it was his son's birthday and he got the day wrong. He thought we were coming back a day earlier than we were, so he said to his wife, yes, we'll be back for the birthday party and of course he got it wrong, so we weren't back for the birthday party. He thought because of that, the flight was going to be delayed, he'd really be in trouble, so, [I laugh]... so, um, he pulled that little stunt on us. Luckily, we got him; me and Clive were talking on the plane. We said how are we going to get around this? We don't know what we're going to do? And we decided that once we got him to Brazil, we'd bumble him in a car, get him so confused driving around Rio, he wouldn't even have a clue where the airport was, you know, he'd just be lost. We said if that doesn't work, once we get to Argentina, we'll tell him there's a flight wherever anyway. So we get through doing the gigs and then tell him if there wasn't a flight, we just, we're just going to have to lie I'm afraid. But in all responsibility, I mean, crumbs, people have bought tickets and he just flipped out. It was a really weird thing, but it was very, very, very Spinal Tap.

JT: It is.

NB: You know, like Tap at the end... David St. Hubbins, you know, that "well, we shain't be working together again." It was very nearly one of those moments, but fortunately it all sort of came together and it was alright. We've had some sort of close run-ins, but we've been together quite a long time and that sort of... because there is a sort of... a fundamental friendship there, you know. Over a long period of time, you sort of start, you do have this friendship. I mean, you know many bands don't. They hate each other. They can't even stand to be in the same room, but we actually kind of quite get on. I mean, we're not really great friends. Individually we are. I mean, I go... you know, with Fudge... Fudge is a great bloke to go out and get drunk with and have an evening out somewhere. He's great, because he's really kind of into those sort of things and everyone's kind of different, you know. When we're out on the road, sort of like those are the kind of things that happen. That's our Spinal Tap moment.

JT: I'd actually like to ask you a bit about your current musical tastes.

NB: Yeah.

JT: I'd like to start out by asking, what's the last CD that you purchased?

NB: Oye, crikey. The last CD I purchased actually was... I mean, this is kind of a... this is a retro sort of thing. I mean, which I know a lot of people that are like me who bought all these albums in the seventies as vinyl LPs and over the past two decades, they've replaced all these LPs with CDs and... so the last actual CD that I bought was, um, Camel Moon Madness, which, you know, back in the seventies was an album, which sort of was another one of those defining moments for me. I mean, you know, I had, um, let me see, Dark Side Of The Moon, Trick Of The Tail, and Moon Madness, and I was going to shop when I was on the holidays, which was nice sunny weather and beautiful, you know, holiday kind of atmosphere. And I bought this album cause I'd heard of Camel and... it always reminds of that kind of summer when I play it and I love it and I got it on CD, so I was really pleased by that.

JT: Kind of along the same lines, what's the last concert that you attended as a fan?

NB: Interesting one, 'cause often people ask about CDs, they do not often ask about concerts. What's the last concert that I went to? Um, probably the last big concert I went to was Steely Dan and... who, you know, is one of my all-time favorite bands and I watch the singer. Pete is a big fan of them as well, and we've wanted to see them for years and years and years and... they haven't toured the UK for, phew, I think we worked out it was something like 27 years. And then they came over here... my god, it was about 12 years ago. This is the like the big first time ever and then they came back again with the, the Two Against Nature tour. We went and saw them twice on it and I was totally blown away. It was fantastic.

JT: I'd also like to ask you some of your favorites as well. What would you say is your favorite album?

NB: Favorite album?

JT: Yeah, I know this is tricky.

NB: Favorite album ever is probably Dark Side Of The Moon and that I know, you know, in prog circles there's a lot of people who like that album. It's just so good.

JT: Yeah, it's a great choice.

NB: And the only thing about it is that it's really not that complicated. I mean, "Breathe," is two chords, [I laugh] D Minor and A, but it's the arrangements - over the top - and the way the guitar lines have been constructed to kind of almost country and western slide, double slide notes and dawdle lawdle di da da dawdle lawdle, very country western style. But the way it's done is just incredible. The atmosphere of that album, I think, and the lyrics are superb. It's just one of those records, uh, you know, just gels perfectly and then the cover [he laughs], the cover is so well balanced and it's simple, but so classic.

JT: Exactly!

NB: So I really like that, I really like Dark Side Of The Moon, but I also like Trick Of The Tail. That was... you know, hugely defining album as well. I mean, Genesis for me. I was really a big Genesis fan... and... I was a big fan, but I also liked Jimi Hendrix, but there was no sort of one album that I could say, oh, that was just really, virtually changed my life. I just, I liked his guitar playing and I liked his songs and I still do, you know, enormously. But it seemed that bands like Floyd and Genesis would occasionally put out an album, which was almost life-changing and most of us have these kind of these albums, you know, that you can relate to now. So, you know, other people are playing them I guess think that, well, they're alright, it's not brilliant, but to us they are the best thing ever. But there are a few good ones. I mean, also Trick Of The Tail was really right up there and so was... There was an album by Supertramp called Crime Of The Century and that goes down as one of my favorites as well. I think that is absolutely superb.

JT: You've got all great choices. I have those up there as well.

NB: Really?

JT: I'm also wondering and... I mean, this is probably an obvious answer, but whom would you say is your favorite band?

NB: Well my favorite band, I don't really know, because... I tend to like songs and albums from different artists. I mean, some of the stuff like is pretty diverse, you know. I mean, I still like, as I said, a lot of pop music, but I actually [he laughs], we, we were all kind of like, when we were younger, sort of quite big fans of Michael Jackson and the Jackson Five, you know. I like quite a lot of soul music as well. I like the Eisley Brothers... Charday, I mean, he's an incredible singer. I'm a really big fan of Charday, Steely Dan... I mean, I can't really pick any one of them. UFO. I mean, when they came along, we just UFO'ed out for like five years, which we thought was the best thing ever, guitar playing, Michael Schenker's guitar playing... Actually that was the last show I went to see live was Michael Schenker. I think..., yeah, which was great. I mean, he played all the UFO numbers that I really wanted to hear and really didn't expect him to do, but he did. But that, that was a superb gig.

JT: I'd also like to ask you some of your favorites that aren't necessarily music-related, just to kind of get an idea of other places where your influences might come from. What would you say is your favorite movie?

NB: My favorite movie... That changes quite a lot, but recently I saw a film called The Pianist, I think it was, which was a Roman Polanski film.

JT: Yeah, that's unbelievable.

NB: Have you seen that film?

JT: Yeah, it's a real eye-opener.

NB: It's a little bit cultish and I... I was talking to my dad about this, and to a couple other people a few nights ago. Have you seen this film? No, we haven't seen it, Well, you got to see it, you know, because, I, it doesn't seem to be a very well-known film, but I got it, I just got it out on video, and I was just blown away and it's one of those films, I know it's a good film, because I just don't want it to end.

JT: It's a real eye-opener, I mean, it's kind of like, there's actually a new one out called Hotel Rwanda that kind of opens your eyes in the same kind of way.

NB: Really? I've heard of that film and I'll definitely be checking them out, but the films I always tend to seem to go for are the films that, um, reflect some terrible kind of injustice that comes to good or some trait of humanity, some strength of humanity that kind of shines through, above, you know, against all odds. These are films that I really like. I mean, even in its fantasy form, Lord Of The Rings, the second one... I mean, it just really got me. I thought it was brilliant, the film.

JT: Yeah. What is your favorite TV show?

NB: [he pauses] There's this one, The Presenters, it's brash and it's really, it's just rubbish. It was about these European presenters. In fact, I think it was French. These presenters presented these programs and they'd like find the nastiest... they go to places like Amsterdam and there was a turd... museum, you know [he laughs]. It's just really, it's just rubbishy stuff, rubbishy TV. But that was quite entertaining, but there is so much rubbishy TV now. I mean, I don't know what it's like in the States, but we have an unbelievable amount of reality TV here. And almost everything, if we don't have reality TV, we have, um, a good number of programs which were about cooking [I chuckle] and a good number of programs which were about doing your house up.

JT: Yeah.

NB: And I don't give a shit about either.

JT: Right.[I laugh]

NB: You know, those programs don't appeal to me and we have a lot of soaps, which I don't like. I like comedy things, you know, so I tend not to really watch TV programs or have a favorite one. There is a series I like at the moment, which I really like, which is called Around The World In 80 Treasures. It's interesting, 'cause it's, it's about this guy who's going around the world talking about treasures that have meant something, you know, historically, thousands of years ago. He just sort of... he just did the Pyramids of Giza in Egypt and this kind of thing. I like programs like that. I like human history, world history programs, but they tend not to be my favorite program. They just pop up now and again.

JT: Also, what would you say is your favorite book?

NB: My favorite book. That's a really difficult one cause I've got quite a few, but they're all on the same sort of theme. I don't know, because there is a difference between my favorite book and... my most life-changing book. It's a lot like what happens say, you know, between Dark Side Of The Moon, which was pretty life-changing, and the Steely Dan album, which I really... maybe not life-changing, but I've enjoyed. I think a book I enjoyed the most actually was probably a book by Bob Geldof, which was his first autobiography which is called Is That It?. But I like Geldof a lot. I think he's a funny guy and he's a good kind of... he's got some good kind of like political ideas as well. I mean, he's great. He did this Live Aid thing over here and it was, you know, the thing in, what was it '80, '85?...In '85 he did the Live Aid concert and every band that was worth their salt played there. I mean, never before has this collection of such big names been in one place and at the end of the concert Geldof just took... everybody had gone home, he went out onto the stage just for a final look and there's two kids just down in front and they just looked at him and said "Is that it?" so [he laughs] he used that as a title for his book. [I chuckle] which I thought was really quite funny. But his kind of humor is like that, so, so it's... I kind of like that. I think it's brilliant. I really enjoyed that book. One of my most influential books has probably been... there's a book by a guy called David Icke. You've heard of him?

JT: No, I haven't.

NB: He talks about people who he thinks are wrong. I mean, he goes to quite serious extremes. There's all kind of alien involvements and all sorts of things, corrupt governments, I mean, the whole thing basically is conspiracy theories. That's, that's, the way he thinks and he has a book called The Biggest Secret and I read that book and I thought that was... that had quite an impact on me and even if you only take it, you know, don't get too involved in what he's saying and just think, okay, well, there's some interesting ideas there. It's still pretty incredible. So I think that was one of my favorite books.

JT: Okay. And you know, I just have something quirky that I like to ask. It kind of helps me identify with the artist, but do you have any pets?

NB: Any pets? No, I don't. I did when I was a kid. We had... we had a lot of pets: tortoises, rabbits, guinea pigs, um, hundreds of mice... we had a dog, we had lazy cats, we had a lot of animals and I loved them. I really liked them and was about... I wanted to be a vet, really, before I became... wanted to become a musician and I used to work on a farm... where I used to milk cows. That was one of the first jobs I had, but I've come to the point now really where as much as I would like to have animals, it's too much to look after them.

JT: Oh, sure. You're not going to believe this, but I actually wanted to become a vet at one point.

NB: Really?

JT: Yeah. I was really seriously considering that before I entered into college. That's pretty funny that you said that.

NB: Yeah.

JT: One last thing, like before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to say to your fans at this time?

NB: Well, I'd like to say to people who really have been there, even recently or, you know, sort of tagged on the last couple of years, thanks for supporting us for so long, because, I... we've been going on a hell of long time and that's a kind of pretty rare thing nowadays. For something to still be able to do something that's considered valid, you know, in the musical arena. So, you know, it's nice to really have people that are still getting enjoyment out of what we do and I thank people for that. I thank people for the time that, you know, we haven't done anything and the difficulties that we've been through, you know, in the... with the band and sort of our personal lives. They sort of stuck with us and that's, that's about as good as you can ask for anything from anybody, you know. That kind of loyalty is like, it's like a very good friendship, you know. You have a friend who... I have friends who some of them I haven't seen for, I don't know, five, six years. But I know when I see them again, it's just like nothing ever changed. We just pick up from where we left off.

JT: Yeah, to quote a very famous band, it's "As Good As Gold."

NB: [he laughs] Yeah, you know, that's what I like to say.

JT: I wanted to thank you again for taking the time to perform this interview.

NB: Well thanks Josh, it's really we appreciate you doing it.

JT: It's a pleasure talking to you and I also wanted to say good job on that ProgAID album, because the music that came out of that was just absolutely extraordinary.

NB: Yeah, yeah, it was good. It was an incredible thing to do. I really enjoyed it. It was quite fun.

JT: Good luck, you know, with all your future projects. I'm really looking forward to hearing this next album.

NB: Yeah, me, too. [we laugh]

[** the "standard" is a reference to this secondary interpretation of the term Pendragon; something recalled from Le Morte D'Arthur, the Sir Thomas Mallory telling. A standard is a flag of sorts, it might have a coat of arms on it or the like... and well, it's this whole Arthur thing that led to me to Pendragon -ed.]

[Incidentally, turns out Pendragon are booked for RosFest 2007 and not (at least not thus far) NEARfest -ed.]

Discography:
Fly High Fall Far (ep) (1984) (OOP)
The Jewel (1985)
9:15 Live (1986)
Kowtow (1989)
The R(B)est Of Pendragon (1991) (incl. Fly High... ep)
The World (1991)
The Very, Very Bootleg - Live In Lille, France 1992 (1993)
The Window Of Life (1993)
Fallen Dreams and Angels (ep) (1994)
Utrecht... The Final Frontier (1995)
The Masquerade Overture (1996)
As Good As Gold ep (1996)
Live In Krakow 96 (1997)
The Masquerade Overture (digi-pack w/bonus trk) (1999)
Once Upon A Time In England Vol 1 (1999)
Once Upon A Time In England Vol 2 (1999)
The Round Table (1985-1998) (1999) (Sth Am. mkt)
The History: 1984-2000 (2000) (Polish mkt) Not Of This World (2001)
Acoustically Challenged (2002) The Jewel (remastered) (2005)
Believe (2005)
Pure (2008)
Concerto Maximo (2009)
Passion (2011)
Out Of Order Comes Chaos (2013)
Men Who Climb Mountains (2014)

Live... At Last! (VID) (1997)
Live...At Last And More (DVD) (2002)
And Now Everybody To The Stage (DVD) (2005)
Past And Presence (DVD) (2007)
Concerto Maximo (DVD) (2009)
Out Of Order Comes Chaos (DVD) (2012)